Barrel Break-in...thoughts?

[JeffRaines]

I was gonna touch on the cleaning part in my reply but didn’t.

My take on cleaning is the same - I don’t do it unless it’s the end of the season or it starts shooting like crap.

The “you gotta keep it clean!!” mentality came along when ammunition was corrosive. You did have to keep it clean similar to a muzzleloader or else! With the non-corrosive powders being used now, it’s largely a thing of the past. It’s one of those “well we’ve always done it this way” things that just won’t die.

 

[Yellowknife]

The “you gotta keep it clean!!” mentality came along when ammunition was corrosive. You did have to keep it clean similar to a muzzleloader or else! With the non-corrosive powders being used now, it’s largely a thing of the past. It’s one of those “well we’ve always done it this way” things that just won’t die.

It wasn't just corrosive ammo by any means. Condensation from hot/cold temp changes and rain would quickly pit a carbon steel barrel in the pre-stainless days. I have a couple of fine old blued rifles in the closet that have pitted bores from many years of Alaska hunting. One bad enough to be useless at this point. A patch and some oil coming in from the field was critical to long life in those guns.

The ability to stretch cleaning intervals is pretty recent in the scheme of things. Even so, even some stainless guns (looking at you Savage) will collect copper to the point were it becomes a problem in relatively short order.

The other exception is suppressed guns. The back pressure keeps the powder fouling in the bore and it can build up bad. After 400 rds or so, my suppressed Tikka had a carbon ring in front of the chamber that was bad enough to cause overpressure. Now I run a brush down it every few boxes to keep that knocked down. Pretty much everything else just gets shot.

 

[deerkiller]

It wasn't just corrosive ammo by any means. Condensation from hot/cold temp changes and rain would quickly pit a carbon steel barrel in the pre-stainless days. I have a couple of fine old blued rifles in the closet that have pitted bores from many years of Alaska hunting. One bad enough to be useless at this point. A patch and some oil coming in from the field was critical to long life in those guns.

The ability to stretch cleaning intervals is pretty recent in the scheme of things. Even so, even some stainless guns (looking at you Savage) will collect copper to the point were it becomes a problem in relatively short order.

The other exception is suppressed guns. The back pressure keeps the powder fouling in the bore and it can build up bad. After 400 rds or so, my suppressed Tikka had a carbon ring in front of the chamber that was bad enough to cause overpressure. Now I run a brush down it every few boxes to keep that knocked down. Pretty much everything else just gets shot.

although I agree with what you said a quick pass or 2 with a snake is a far cry from toiling over your bore until it's shiny clean, and too often, if ever - I keep a bore snake in a plastic bag that has TETRA oil AND a dry one in another, a pass or two with the oily one and another pass or two with the dry and I've seen no rust or corrosion OR shift in POI, been doing that with HUNTING rifles and shotguns for 20 +/- years now

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

Work better= static zero.


How does Mountain men with black powder muzzle loaders (though you just discovered where our “knowledge” of cleaning comes from) have anything to do with modern firearms and non corrosive ammunition?

Here’s a type of question that everyone should ask when given advice-

How many weapons have you shot and used enough to truly wear out or break? If you have truly worn some out by shooting, did they fail due to a dirty bore? If the answer is “zero”, then your beliefs come from folklore.
What actual damage occurs if I shoot 20 rounds of modern ammunition through a centerfire rifle and do not clean it?

It was just an example, could it be an old wise tale to keep your weapons clean sure..... however I’ll tell you of my personal experience. I’m in the Army currently not for much longer (thank god), for the past 7 years I have been a Tanker 19K, doing plenty of weapons firing. Ranging from M9 (now M17... trash) all the way to our main source of equipment our M256 120mm Smoothbore cannon..... now each weapon system one thing remains constant.... and that is the stressing on keeping the barrel of every single weapon clean. Something along the lines of any single amount of carbon buildup at least inside the barrel could effect the zero and that’s if your only talking about the effect of zero from a dirty weapon. Not to mention any number of failures carbon build up could have on any function from feeding, chambering, locking, firing, unlocking, extracting, and ejecting. Also what about build up of carbon on firing pins? I have seen that make a weapon not fire a few times however that’s an M4A1 and hadn’t been cleaned in a few hundred rounds for some reason. What about outside particles such as dirt, sand, mud etc.? Cleaning a barrel is for that too because say you didn’t clean because it’s your science or whatever and for some freak reason some form of soil or matter got into your barrel and that alone could effect zero. Like I said seems crazy to me not to clean a weapon after it’s use, but hey I mean maybe your right maybe the Army is wrong about when to clean weapons or I have been taught wrong I guess.

 

[deerkiller]

It was just an example, could it be an old wise tale to keep your weapons clean sure..... however I’ll tell you of my personal experience. I’m in the Army currently not for much longer (thank god), for the past 7 years I have been a Tanker 19K, doing plenty of weapons firing. Ranging from M9 (now M17... trash) all the way to our main source of equipment our M256 120mm Smoothbore cannon..... now each weapon system one thing remains constant.... and that is the stressing on keeping the barrel of every single weapon clean. Something along the lines of any single amount of carbon buildup at least inside the barrel could effect the zero and that’s if your only talking about the effect of zero from a dirty weapon. Not to mention any number of failures carbon build up could have on any function from feeding, chambering, locking, firing, unlocking, extracting, and ejecting. Also what about build up of carbon on firing pins? I have seen that make a weapon not fire a few times however that’s an M4A1 and hadn’t been cleaned in a few hundred rounds for some reason. What about outside particles such as dirt, sand, mud etc.? Cleaning a barrel is for that too because say you didn’t clean because it’s your science or whatever and for some freak reason some form of soil or matter got into your barrel and that alone could effect zero. Like I said seems crazy to me not to clean a weapon after it’s use, but hey I mean maybe your right maybe the Army is wrong about when to clean weapons or I have been taught wrong I guess.

unclear on what weapons you are talking about ? cannons ? shoulder fired ? don't some of the large bore you're describing utilize black powder ? If so, that's an entirely different matter altogether … Carbon and debris are one thing, copper fouling and scrubbing a HUNTING rifle barrel until the bore shines another - I have a hunch you are missing Formidilosus's entire point

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

unclear on what weapons you are talking about ? cannons ? shoulder fired ? don't some of the large bore you're describing utilize black powder ? If so, that's an entirely different matter altogether … Carbon and debris are one thing, copper fouling and scrubbing a HUNTING rifle barrel until the bore shines another - I have a hunch you are missing Formidilosus's entire point

Negative, what I wrote was a generalized statement regarding how as to why I believe you should clean your rifle. That why being as to what I have been taught as my current career path. Stop looking at singular sentences as a different topics. The original comments regarding scrubbing it until it shines was not what got me writing. What did was the fact that it’s so left field from any person who shoots for a living to not clean your barrel in regards to accuracy. Mentioning all those weapons was saying, in all sorts of firearms with barrels all of them need cleaned, which in turn the cleanliness does effect accuracy and zero. This information is coming from myself, however I have plenty of good friends who do more specialized shooting MOS’s, with high powered bolt action rifles, I’ll consult their opinion to shed further light on the topic aforementioned.

 

[deerkiller]

Negative, what I wrote was a generalized statement regarding how as to why I believe you should clean your rifle. That why being as to what I have been taught as my current career path. Stop looking at singular sentences as a different topics. The original comments regarding scrubbing it until it shines was not what got me writing. What did was the fact that it’s so left field from any person who shoots for a living to not clean your barrel in regards to accuracy. Mentioning all those weapons was saying, in all sorts of firearms with barrels all of them need cleaned, which in turn the cleanliness does effect accuracy and zero. This information is coming from myself, however I have plenty of good friends who do more specialized shooting MOS’s, with high powered bolt action rifles, I’ll consult their opinion to shed further light on the topic aforementioned.

First, let me say "Thank you for your service" (forgot earlier) I think at this point there is only one member that "I" know of that I feel should, if he chooses, respond to your assertions - I WILL say that I've been shooting, and I dare say shooting a lot longer with many thousands of rounds expended as well as witnessing many many others doing the same, that my observations are quite different than yours on most things discussed here

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

First, let me say "Thank you for your service" (forgot earlier) I think at this point there is only one member that "I" know of that I feel should, if he chooses, respond to your assertions - I WILL say that I've been shooting, and I dare say shooting a lot longer with many thousands of rounds expended as well as witnessing many many others doing the same, that my observations are quite different than yours on most things discussed here

I mean no offense not in the slightest as Hunting and different aspects of hunting in my eyes is a discipline not unlike a martial art especially mastering shooting....and whomever has done that has my respect fully ...... which yours truly is absolutely not even close to mastering lol.,,.. I was just saying my piece.... maybe this topic is nuanced more than I know and I will admit to that 100 percent.... my original comment was simply like “everything I’ve been told is a lie” type of response and then the first response someone said I was like hold up a second I’m not by any means a greenhorn with firearms...... I just like to treat my weapons like I’ve always been engrained painfully to do lol, specifically the longer range rig... anyways positive vibes hope everyone’s barrels shoot straight and have a great rest of the season

 

[mt100gr.]

The notion of not cleaning was a huge obstacle for me. I followed the directions on my customs, followed what I had learned growing up, wiped and cleaned and wiped and cleaned some more.

The more I learned, the more I shot my rifles. Cleaning became a chore and a burden.

As I became more involved in the firearms forums (here and elsewhere) I slowly wrapped my brain around the idea of leaving it dirty. Then I cleaned less and less with no adverse results.

2 years ago I bought a used Tikka 6.5 superlite. I cleaned it when I got it and haven't touched it since. That was a hurdle, especially since it was new to me. It shoots very well near and far.

Last winter I bought yet another Tikka. A 6.5 CTR. I cleaned it when it came home and again, haven't done anything to the bore. It is a fantastic, consistent, accurate rifle.

What I am saying is you don't have to gulp the kool-aid. Ease into the idea if need be and see it for yourself.

 

[Formidilosus]

It was just an example, could it be an old wise tale to keep your weapons clean sure..... however I’ll tell you of my personal experience. I’m in the Army currently not for much longer (thank god), for the past 7 years I have been a Tanker 19K, doing plenty of weapons firing. Ranging from M9 (now M17... trash) all the way to our main source of equipment our M256 120mm Smoothbore cannon..... now each weapon system one thing remains constant.... and that is the stressing on keeping the barrel of every single weapon clean. Something along the lines of any single amount of carbon buildup at least inside the barrel could effect the zero and that’s if your only talking about the effect of zero from a dirty weapon. Not to mention any number of failures carbon build up could have on any function from feeding, chambering, locking, firing, unlocking, extracting, and ejecting. Also what about build up of carbon on firing pins? I have seen that make a weapon not fire a few times however that’s an M4A1 and hadn’t been cleaned in a few hundred rounds for some reason. What about outside particles such as dirt, sand, mud etc.? Cleaning a barrel is for that too because say you didn’t clean because it’s your science or whatever and for some freak reason some form of soil or matter got into your barrel and that alone could effect zero. Like I said seems crazy to me not to clean a weapon after it’s use, but hey I mean maybe your right maybe the Army is wrong about when to clean weapons or I have been taught wrong I guess.

The real question is- are you open to the possibility that your info is incorrect, and that your institutions beliefs are incorrect?

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

The real question is- are you open to the possibility that your info is incorrect, and that your institutions beliefs are incorrect?

That’s why I’m ETSing brother lol...... but I generally trust my sniper buddies who live to shoot

 

[david2duck]

I am in the same boat as many of the guys on here in that I was taught to clean my rifle after X amount of rounds. After reading Forms recommendations and a few other people who shoot way more than me I decided to give it a try. I bought a ruger American predator in 6.5CM and didn’t do a barrel break in or any cleaning of the barrel since I put the first round through it. I am just shy of 400 rounds and it is consistently 3/8” 3 shot groups at 100. I was really skeptical at first, that’s why I tried it out on a really cheap gun. Since the ruger I have done the same on a seekins, 2 fierce, and a Bergara and all the guns shoot well and consistent. It might not be for everyone but I really love spending more time shooting and not cleaning. To each their own.

 

[Watrdawg]

I've gone back and forth when it comes to breaking in a barrel. There are times I've done it and other I haven't. I don't really know if I can tell a difference one way or another. As far as cleaning is concerned I'll usually run a bore snake through a rifle a couple of times and thats it. When growing up and while in the Army it was always preached that you clean your weapon after every use. In the Army we were also taught to keep your weapon dry or use very very little lubricant otherwise your weapon would become fouled up and jam. Well in reality its just the opposite. AR/M4/M16's are meant to be ran wet and function a million times better when wet. I keep mine well lubricated and rarely clean them. I have a couple that have an easy 10K round through them and no cleaning at all. They run fine.

 

[Clarktar]

Do a proper brake in by cleaning each shot for a few then after a group for a few. When you notice a big reduction of copper coming out, then shoot 20 or 30 and clean. You wont be sorry. It is also important to use a good bore guide and a good cleaning solvent like BoreTech Eliminator. Be very careful and slow entering the bore and returning after the stroke. Go slow and easy and all is well. Just dry patch after with no oil and shoot. Expect a velocity increase about 150 rounds as the barrel seasons.

Would it be worth while to break in Barrell with some off the shelf, affordable ammo, for the first 100ish rounds, then move on to load dev. with handloads?

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[Clarktar]

Would it be worth while to break in Barrell with some off the shelf, affordable ammo, for the first 100ish rounds, then move on to load dev. with handloads?

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@Broz

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[Broz]

Would it be worth while to break in Barrell with some off the shelf, affordable ammo, for the first 100ish rounds, then move on to load dev. with handloads?

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Why not? I often do this if I can find brass I want to use after it is a win win

 

[KyleS224]

I've never broken in any barrel. I will clean new them first and then just shoot regularly

 

[schnitzerphoto]

Why not? I often do this if I can find brass I want to use after it is a win win

+1 on this. Don’t need to break in with primo loads, and the resulting brass is a little added benefit.




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[menhaden_man]

Check out the latest edition of Rifleman (or join the NRA if you haven’t seen it). Reminded me of this thread and all the folks in the don’t need to clean your rifle camp. Good article by Towsley on fouling.

 

[Formidilosus]

Check out the latest edition of Rifleman (or join the NRA if you haven’t seen it). Reminded me of this thread and all the folks in the don’t need to clean your rifle camp. Good article by Towsley on fouling.

Uh huh.