BACO Winchester Model 70 quality control

LED

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Nov 19, 2024
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First time forum poster...Apologies in advance if this has been discussed here, but I cannot find any thread about the issue. In the past 2 years I bought 2 new Model 70's (BACO - Portugal guns). There are quality control issues with each of them. The first was an Extreme Weather in 6.5 Creedmoor that had a defective claw extractor that would not grab the rim of the casing. I sent that gun to Winchester, and to their credit, they fixed it. That gun shoots great now and the claw works fine. More recently, I bought a Featherweight in .308. It has too much freebore...about 0.100 too much. If I lengthen the cartridge to get the bullet about 0.70 from the lands, the cartridge becomes so long that it no longer fits in the magazine. I have tried about 4 loads, each ranging from 0.140 to 0.090 off the lands and the gun just doesn't shoot well. Best group is with 150 grain Sierra Game Kings at 0.90 off the lands...around 2.0" three shots at 100 yards. I also tried 150 Grain Barnes TTSX, but those groups were about 3.5". I have tried 2 different powders. I may try a 165-ish grain bullet just for the heck of it, but I do not expect different results because of the bullet jump. Probably shoots well enough to hunt deer at ranges out to 100 yards with the Sierra Game King load, but it's very disappointing to have this issue with a $1200 rifle. I called Winchester, but they are telling me that if the gun will shoot 0.75" 3-shot groups at 50 yards, it is within spec. I'm probably going to send the rifle to them, but didn't know if anyone else had similar issues? If so, how did you fix it...or, were you unable to fix it?

I have 6 Model 70's: a pre-64 308 that shoots holes inside holes, an XTR 30-06 that is a great shooter, a New Haven Classic in 25 WSSM that shoots great, two Extreme Weather Portugal guns in 6.5 crd that both shoot well (although one of these had to be sent back to Winchester to fix the claw extractor), and this troublesome Portuguese 308. I have always considered myself a Model 70 guy...but the past two purchases have soured me. I hear guys say that the BACO Model 70's are head and shoulders above the old New Haven guns, but I'm really starting to wonder if those people have any real-life experience with both versions. My New Haven guns admittedly have creepy triggers, but at this point, I'd take one of those over the past 2 BACO guns any day.
 

Choupique

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I have a new haven and a BACO model 70, and the BACO one is a far better fit and finished rifle IMO.

Short action cartridges loaded to reach lands and not fitting in the mags is pretty normal from what I understand. My .338 is nowhere close to the lands at maximum mag length with any bullet ive tried, but it still shoots great. I'm sure the chamber is in spec.
 

thinhorn_AK

"DADDY"
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I have an extreme weather 30-06 I got back around 2016 or so, it’s been a great rifle, never had a single issue with it. I’ve also been able to make almost any bullet I try to load work in that gun with minimal drama.

I don’t use it much anymore because it’s a bit heavy and not threaded for a silencer but I’ve loaned it out to a few guys who have used it to great success. My favorite load for it uses the 190g ABLR, I watched a friend kill his first moose with it at just over 300yds a few years back.
 
OP
L

LED

FNG
Joined
Nov 19, 2024
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I have a new haven and a BACO model 70, and the BACO one is a far better fit and finished rifle IMO.

Short action cartridges loaded to reach lands and not fitting in the mags is pretty normal from what I understand. My .338 is nowhere close to the lands at maximum mag length with any bullet ive tried, but it still shoots great. I'm sure the chamber is in spec.
I have almost 40 rifles. I reload for all of them, except the rimfires. I also own 4 rifles chambered in 308 (a Kimber 84M, a pre-64 M70, a Savage, and this M70). This is the first time I have ever personally seen this issue for any caliber. I don't think it's "pretty normal" for a cartridge to not fit in the magazine if the bullet is 0.050 of the lands.

It's a shame bc if I cannot get it resolved with Winchester, I'll probably be selling it. If that's the case, it might be a long time til I buy another new Model 70. This issue wouldn't shock me in a $500 rifle, but in a rifle that costs over $1300, after tax, it's unacceptable.
 

Choupique

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don't think it's "pretty normal" for a cartridge to not fit in the magazine if the bullet is 0.050 of the lands

Well, I don't have 40 rifles. I'll check my notes but I think with my 338 loaded to mag length it's something like 0.140" from the lands. Its a long action so maybe it's irrelevant. Also reading what some guys technique is for new rifles makes me think it's normal. They load to mag length and then make sure it isn't jammed in the lands, and it doesn't seem like it ever is.
 
OP
L

LED

FNG
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I would try loading some 180 grain bullets and see how they perform.
This is likely my next step. It's only a 1/10 twist, so I'm not optimistic about bullet stabilization with the big jump from case to the lands...but I guess you never know until you try it.
 
OP
L

LED

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I would have to imagine they are being considerate of ammo like This.
Maybe...but, that doesn't make sense to me either. That ammo is for dangerous game. If it's that long, then it won't fit in the magazine. So, you're then using a single shot rifle on a dangerous game hunt?...that makes no sense.
 

Wrench

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It's not the oal its the ojive that gets to be the issue. The 220 is .308" basically at the nose where a eldm is at .4"
 

Choupique

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I have heard of shoddy bedding jobs with some of the wood stock model 70's. I thought that was a new haven thing (mine has a garbage bed job) but the FW might well have a shit bedding job going on as well.

2" as a best group isn't acceptable, I wouldn't argue that. Is the freebore part of the chamber spec? Someone oughta be able to measure it to see if it's in spec.
 
OP
L

LED

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Not worth the fuss, imo. Just rebarrel it.
I think this is where I am. Tried 180 grain bullets. Same issue. Cannot get close to the lands without making the length too long to fit in the mag. It shoots about 2" groups of 3 shots. I may call ER Shaw and get a price.
 

SDHNTR

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I think this is where I am. Tried 180 grain bullets. Same issue. Cannot get close to the lands without making the length too long to fit in the mag. It shoots about 2" groups of 3 shots. I may call ER Shaw and get a price.
Just curious, why do you want to get close to the lands? What you are describing is quite typical with factory barrels.

Have you even taken the BA out of the stock to look at the bedding? Is the barrel floated?
 

Wapiti1

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I wonder if they use a SAAMI or CIP chamber. Very different throat designs between the two. CIP could seem like a really long throat.

Jeremy
 

Choupique

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Winchesters are supposedly known for long throats in certain calibers. I know the 458 has a throat a mile long.
 
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