Backup irons or backup scope

[BooneAK]

So I've only ever needed a critical backup one time: I was 10 miles into the backcountry by bike. I got some dirt in the muzzle of my Ruger GSR -- no problem, I had a Boresnake with me for just this kind of thing. But, when I went to pull it through from chamber to muzzle, I got caught on something in or downstream of the chamber, or it knotted without my seeing it, and that thing would not come out. I tried everything a guy would, and it was the only rifle I had with me -- or at the truck. They might get stolen! So it was a six hour drive back to Fairbanks to get another rifle, another six hours back to the trailhead, 20 miles of trail riding roundtrip and 2 days wasted. Needless to say, I take two rifles with me now, and if I don't do that, there's always a spare rifle in the backseat of my truck, scoped and sighted in, obviously; please don't steal it.

I've never had a scope fail, but we've all read the stories of falls and horses stepping on them and the like; not too many of us who enjoy rifle hunting are using iron sights, but lots of people consider them backups. I may have a contrarian view.

For one, I carry my rifle in the side pocket of my backpack, and iron sights will not allow a quick release because they get hung up in the loop around the top of the barrel. I don't like that, especially in bear country. I also can't really consider irons backup because I wouldn't use them for anything over 50 yards, tbh. I'll throw this in, too: want a kid to have a good first deer hunting experience? Give him a scoped firearm from the start -- missing and wounding are capital bummers.

So -- who's taking a backup scope with them? I suppose ideally primary and secondary would both be sighted in, QR, set up on the same base, but regardless -- have backup scopes basically replaced irons when I wasn't looking?

 

[Dioni A]

Drop tested and proven systems don't lend themselves to needing a backup. At this point I feel like the most likely scenario that could break my scope would also have me needing a trip to the emergency room.

 

[Dioni A]

If your not familiar with it this is a great resource.

Rifle Scope Field Evaluations

rokslide.com

 

[Taudisio]

So I've only ever needed a critical backup one time: I was 10 miles into the backcountry by bike. I got some dirt in the muzzle of my Ruger GSR -- no problem, I had a Boresnake with me for just this kind of thing. But, when I went to pull it through from chamber to muzzle, I got caught on something in or downstream of the chamber, or it knotted without my seeing it, and that thing would not come out. I tried everything a guy would, and it was the only rifle I had with me -- or at the truck. They might get stolen! So it was a six hour drive back to Fairbanks to get another rifle, another six hours back to the trailhead, 20 miles of trail riding roundtrip and 2 days wasted. Needless to say, I take two rifles with me now, and if I don't do that, there's always a spare rifle in the backseat of my truck, scoped and sighted in, obviously; please don't steal it.

I've never had a scope fail, but we've all read the stories of falls and horses stepping on them and the like; not too many of us who enjoy rifle hunting are using iron sights, but lots of people consider them backups. I may have a contrarian view.

For one, I carry my rifle in the side pocket of my backpack, and iron sights will not allow a quick release because they get hung up in the loop around the top of the barrel. I don't like that, especially in bear country. I also can't really consider irons backup because I wouldn't use them for anything over 50 yards, tbh. I'll throw this in, too: want a kid to have a good first deer hunting experience? Give him a scoped firearm from the start -- missing and wounding are capital bummers.

So -- who's taking a backup scope with them? I suppose ideally primary and secondary would both be sighted in, QR, set up on the same base, but regardless -- have backup scopes basically replaced irons when I wasn't looking?

I have taken a backup upper receiver in a different caliber for my ar when I went out of state once (never used it). I have also taken a QR red dot off and put it back on the same rifle and the zero was off. Seems like a cheapo rifle under the back seat, that won’t crush you if it does get stolen, is a better option. It may only be good out to 300 yards, but that’s 99% of my hunting shots anyway. Your example of a horse stepping on a rifle, and that far away from home in the backcountry, I think a $500 rifle setup under the seat is cheap insurance for that specific scenario. Dioni is right with the good scope recommendations, but extraordinary stuff can and does happen that can break anything (including the best gear).

 

[Luke S]

I've been thinking about this to. Most iron sites are in a dove tail. How do you know they haven't moved a bit as the gun rattles around? And if you break a good scope there is a good chance you broke that thin metal site too. I don't think QD mounts are as good but I suspect the combo might be more accurate than most people would be with iron sites

Now SOME iron sites are pretty good. I really like my Ruger Scout for example. The front site is pretty sturdy. I have a QD peep site that returns to zero as far as I can tell. At least good enough for the kind of close range shots I'd take. I could see breaking a scope and using that system.

The other scenario for backup irons is trailing a bear in thick brush. But realistically I wonder when irons become better than my scope at 2.5 power? I think I can get the scope on target faster. You might lose some peripheral vision/situational awareness really close in but I still suspect many shooters would do better with a scope than iron sites they never used.

 

[Kenny Hart]

Backup irons are just for looks...and they do look cool on a classic hunting rifle.

But I don't mess with either a backup scope or sights at this point.

 

[TN2shot07]

I’m guilty of removing several sets of iron sights just to pull the scope down. If I’m traveling to hunt I do have an extra gun in the truck.

 

[EastHumboldt]

Savage axis xp behind the seat. Less money than many people spend on freeze dried food for a trip, and probably not gonna go into emotional trauma if it gets stolen.

A spare scope would require bringing along enough ammo to sight it in, cuz I doubt if it’s gonna remain perfectly sighted with qd mounts. Then you have the noise associated with that.

 

[eamyrick]

I have thought about this a bunch and with high quality scopes mounted properly in high quality rings there is very very little to worry about it. With the minimal weight of RMRs and pic rail bases for qd I have considered having a spare for fly in hunts. Would also be a nice option when shuttling meat in bear country with no sidearm. You can make quality hits all day at 200 with a dot.

 

[TaperPin]

Scopes are the weak link. Unfortunately, the weak link to a second scope is repeatability, so the best solution is having a second rifle at the truck. At one time I had two identical rifles so the backup was exactly the same in every way.

Some traveling shooters that remove and replace scopes regularly are having really good repeatability with big one piece setups, claiming very little deviation, but for something the rest of us would use I don’t see most rings being anywhere near that.

From the shooting I’ve done steel bases and rings repeat better than aluminum. Beefy rings like the Leupold Mark 4 repeat better than a lightweight design with more flex in the dovetail clamp. Two identical scopes and rings will repeat differently - it must be how the machining lines up or settles in better, or something like that. Lapped rings repeat better. Any dirt whatsoever will throw things way out of whack.

The main thing I’ve learned is a spare scope is only as good as its ability to repeat and the only way to test that is to fire groups and take the scope off and put it back on between shots. In most cases the results will be horrible.

If I were flying or being packed in so far a second backup rifle within a days hike wasn’t an option I’d pack a spare scope. A bare fixed 4x Leupold is less than 9 ounces plus whatever rings you go with. It’s less than the weight of food you’d waste going a day without a rifle.

 

[jimh406]

Backup rifle makes the most sense. In practice, it’s probably not required. Do add tape to the end of your barrel.

Backup irons are fine, but for me, that’s drastically reducing my range. That may or may not be a problem for you.

 

[Marble]

In the last 20-plus years, we have needed to use our backup rifles 3-4 times. A broken bolt handle on one rifle, dropped rifles where the backup was used the next day instead of checking zero, two broken stocks and maybe another situation I can't recall. I've also had hunting partners need to use my backup for whatever reason.

It seems the scopes of today are much more reliable when it comes to dropping them. I recall scopes just sitting on the safe all year and when we would them out, this is in the 80s and early 90s, they would have lost their zero.

Even falling on my gun and landing on my scope or dropping it straight onto a lava rock where the turret was struck, didn't result in a loss of zero.

Keeping stuff out of your barrel is an easy fix. Just tape it.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

 

[huntnful]

I’ve had two rifles with me on every out of state hunt for the last 4 years. Also, please don’t steal one hahaha.

My main rifle is rock solid, so if something goes wrong that would take it out of commission, I’d likely just need another gun.

Here in CA I just bring the one rifle that has copper loaded for it. It’s not far from home.

IMO your two gun approach is the best

 

[Mk44]

My backup is the iron sights on my gun.
But if you’re more comfortable with a backup scope, a QD setup should be an easy swap should you need it.

 

[ODB]

If you use a system like Talley with custom bases (I say this because it ensures the shoulder of BOTH bases are perpendicular to the bore) swapping from one scope to another should not present a major impediment in the field.

Do this: buy two identical scopes with identical rings. Mount and sight in the first scope, then Mount and sight in the second scope and use that as the primary scope. Take the first, already-sighted in scope as a backup. There will be very little change in POI. You can also test repeatability at your range to give you greater confidence in the event you do need to change in the field.

I would not make the mistake of used a lesser quality/power scope as your backup. I see a lot of people do that and have never understood it. If the hunt is valuable enough that you feel compelled to bring a backup, bring a proper backup.

 

[IAm_Not_Lost]

I don’t think a backup scope is a bad idea per se, particularly if both scopes are on QD mounts (if your rifle system allows that).

Otherwise, it would be a little tedious to confirm a backup scope with traditional mounts retains a good enough zero, but, it generally should. I mean, I’d trust it out to about 200 yards, after that you’re likely going to find that you’re off by 3-4 MOA I would guess, based on my experience swapping scopes back and forth and the degree of POI shift between swapping.

 

[longrangelead]

I've been testing both backup irons and scope remount to zero.
As far as scope returning to zero after being remounted, torque the mount nut/screws and put a witness mark on them.
upon remounting, torque to witness mark and go kill. So far my testing has shown this to return to exactly zero with 1st and 2nd gen SWFA 3-15's and a RS1.2
All the stuff we do to hold zero also gets us back to zero in a QD situation.

 

[Choupique]

I like having irons on a rifle and the right wrench to take the scope off.

I wish I had gotten a model 70 alaskan instead of EWSS just to have the irons.

I'm not doing a backup scope though. I just bring an iron sighted crack barrel 45-70 as a backup. It'll do in a pinch in the off chance I actually need it.

 

[BooneAK]

Cool -- thx for the conversation

 

[gearguywb]

Buy a high quality scope, something like a NF. The chances are extremely thin that you will ever, ever need a backup. At some point you have to trust your gear.

If you had to change a scope then you need to find a place to do the swap (easy), and then re-zero everything (not easy). Bring extra ammo for the re-zero process, etc.

If you have a spare rifle in a truck (in the same caliber), or somewhere else, that seems to make a lot more sense

We (at least I) don't take two of everything into the field. Knife, sleeping bag (what if one gets wet!), air mattress, etc. You get my drift.

Kind of like those guys that wear a belt and suspenders.....