BA Q-Core SL versus Exped UL7...

[HellsCanyon]

For nights down into the teens temperature wise, what R-value pad would you be comfortable with? Obviously I understand higher is better, but what is adequate for 3 season use? Both with a sleeping bag and with a quilt...

Mike

 

[ohhiitznik]

I went into the 20's with a 2.5 R value pad and a cheap 20 degree synthetic bag.... But I usually have no problems staying warm. This year I'll be using a 4.5 R value pad, a Kifaru Woobie, and a Borah Gear Bivy. I should be able to get down in the 30's with this set up. I will wear my clothes to bed if I need more warmth. Very light sleeping setup as the Woobie is 20 oz, the bivy is 8 oz And the pad I'll be using is 25 oz *I'm having my custom for 82 inches of chest girth and 66 foot girth along with being 84 inches long.*

3lbs 5 oz for a great sleeping setup for archery elk.

If I end up doing later hunts or need more warmth, I add in a kifaru Slickbag 20 and bring the woobie along to boost it.

 

[theedz]

Thanks for the review Conlan, I will be purchasing a new pad soon and these were 2 I was very interested in. With the discrepancy in the advertised weight and actually weight, is this something seen in the other Big Agnes models?

 

[slim9300]

Good review Conlan,
Glad to see the Exped didn't get its butt kicked.

Obviously not. It seems there is no perfect pad out there and having to make a couple compromises is a necessity.

 

[slim9300]

I have the regular q-core 72" model I wonder what that actually weighs in at. I was going to upgrade to the sl but if its only 6 oz lighter I may not.

Hopefully it's not 2 ounces understated. I'm curious what you find.

 

[slim9300]

For nights down into the teens temperature wise, what R-value pad would you be comfortable with? Obviously I understand higher is better, but what is adequate for 3 season use? Both with a sleeping bag and with a quilt...

Mike

To give you a rough idea.

3.0 = 20-30 degree rating

5.0 = 5-15 degree rating

*Real world usage can vary a lot.

This is a subjective thing (even more so than sleeping bags) but what you really need to know is that an R-value difference of 2.0 is going to equate to about 15 degree gained or lost in terms of warmth. Or so they say.

I have slept in my 15 degree bag (Marmot Helium) on my UL7 with a 3.1 R-value down into the very high teens. I wasn't warm but I wasn't cold. If I had another bag like the North Face Cat's Meow, I would have been noticeably colder despite both bags having similar ratings. Also, if I was in a zero degree Marmot Lithium or Slick Bag, I'm confident that I would have been warm and toasty.

If you took an uninsulated AirCore and laid on a few inches of packed snow all night, it would be mostly melted in the morning. This may seem obvious, but as you raise the R-value of the pad, the less your body heat will be lost to the ground and vice versa. A pad of 5.0 or greater should have very little affect on the snow in the above situation. But a guy that sleeps warm could still be warm enough to sleep on the completely uninsulated pad with a good bag. That's where it becomes subjective. And as you can imagine when there is no snow, the temperature of the ground can vary quite a bit depending on where you are.

 

[fillthefreezer]

might have to throw my standard q core on the scale after reading this

 

[westside elkhunter]

Thank You for the review. I just weighed my insulated air core(20x72x2.5") and it weighs in at 27.85oz. On the Big Agnes web site says the new IAC (20x72x3.25") weighs in at 22oz. And Q core sl(20x72x3.5") weighs in at 17oz. It looks like i will be doing some shopping before long

 

[red]

Thank You for the review. I just weighed my insulated air core(20x72x2.5") and it weighs in at 27.85oz. On the Big Agnes web site says the new IAC (20x72x3.25") weighs in at 22oz. And Q core sl(20x72x3.5") weighs in at 17oz. It looks like i will be doing some shopping before long

BA must weigh their pads after adding air. I bet that's where the discrepancy is.....

 

[luke moffat]

BA must weigh their pads after adding air. I bet that's where the discrepancy is.....

If by air you mean helium

 

[slim9300]

If by air you mean helium

Lol. That's what I was thinking.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

It does "burn me up" and I very anal about weight myself, but show me another 20.7 ounce pad that's 76"x20"ish, 3.5" thick and has an R-value of 4.5 (let's hope). Oh, and that doesn't sound like you are sleeping on a bag of potato chips. The options are non-existent.

Trust me, not arguing with you at all, but man if a company states it weighs x it darn well better weigh x in my mind. Makes me glad I got a Kookabay pad before he stopped taking orders.
The noise from the Thermarest annoys the goodness right out of me as well.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

Thought I had posted this already, but you might like to know that Stephenson's makes custom down air mattresses. Had one done last year 72"Lx24"W, 3.5" thick, R9 came in at 24oz on the dot. Gave it to a good friend (present).

 

[slim9300]

Thought I had posted this already, but you might like to know that Stephenson's makes custom down air mattresses. Had one done last year 72"Lx24"W, 3.5" thick, R9 came in at 24oz on the dot. Gave it to a good friend (present).

I remember that Kookabay had stopped making pads. I didn't realize there was another custom option.

Do you have a link to his site? Any pics of the pad? I'm curious what kind of baffle design it has.

An R-value of 9 is nuts. Was this pad for winter camping or are you just a cold sleeper? I wonder how much reducing the R-value in half would lighten the pad.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

Here is the link http://warmlite.com/down-air-mattress-alone it has a picture of what it will look like.
I don't have a pic because I bought it for a friend......so I have not used it either, but he really likes it, and yes it was for winter camping. It has vertical baffling like the Exped, but uses internal net baffles to keep the down from shifting. He has used it since 2010.
If you take the 4" off the sides and add it to the ends you would end up losing some weight, and half the insulation would cut out even more....who knows

 

[Ramcam]

Here is the link http://warmlite.com/down-air-mattress-alone it has a picture of what it will look like.
I don't have a pic because I bought it for a friend......so I have not used it either, but he really likes it, and yes it was for winter camping. It has vertical baffling like the Exped, but uses internal net baffles to keep the down from shifting. He has used it since 2010.
If you take the 4" off the sides and add it to the ends you would end up losing some weight, and half the insulation would cut out even more....who knows

The down exped that i looked at had been stored standing vertical.The down had fallen down to the lower half.That has me concerned.No baffling to prevent that from happening.In real world use i'm not sure if it's a pain or not shifting it before using the pad.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

The Stephenson's uses internal baffling to keep the down from shifting so you don't have to worry about that. They will even zone insulate it for you, from what I understand the foot box is the most common area asked for.

 

[actionshooter]

Obviously not. It seems there is no perfect pad out there and having to make a couple compromises is a necessity.

I think the compromise is having multiple pads for different situations.

 

[slim9300]

I think the compromise is having multiple pads for different situations.

I have that and I'm still not happy.

 

[slim9300]

By the way. I talked to BA "tech support" today. They seemed concerned but not surprised and totally useless. They told me "the size is kind of an estimate." And that "there is no standard in the industry for measuring. Do you measure inflated or do you measure deflated?" He wasn't even sure how they officially measure. He did tell me that a weight variance of 0.5-1.0 ounces is considered acceptable and that my finding of a difference of 1.7 ounces seemed like a lot. Really?! I will bet money that every pad out there will be within 0.5 ounces of mine.

Anyways, it was basically a worthless call. As I figured yesterday, I need to either accept the pad for what it is or return it. I'm not going to find anything with the same specs that is going to save me any weight. My only real option is a custom pad that will weigh basically the same and that uses down insulation.