ATF form 4 conspiracy

[crich]

These guys have been notorious for dragging their feet for years on tax stamps. Its no secret that these agencies lean a certain way politically especially with the current administration. Why out of nowhere (leading up to such a pivotal presidential election) is the ATF slamming out tax stamps faster than most people can even decide which can to buy? Quickest way to bolster their federal gun registry before a regime change? Idk but the whole thing seems odd unless Im missing something.

 

[TxLite]

I am wondering if they are trying to push folks towards individual transfers instead of trusts

This does 2 things -

1. Prevents people from being added as a responsible person down the road without ATF’s knowledge

2. Catches 2 tax stamp payment. 1 for when folks rush out for an individual transfer with a quick approval and then the other to move it to a trust later to pass down to their kids

 

[Geewhiz]

It is interesting that's for sure. Out of the blue pushing out approvals in days instead of years.

 

[crich]

I am wondering if they are trying to push folks towards individual transfers instead of trusts

This does 2 things -

1. Prevents people from being added as a responsible person down the road without ATF’s knowledge

2. Catches 2 tax stamp payment. 1 for when folks rush out for an individual transfer with a quick approval and then the other to move it to a trust later to pass down to their kids

Good point on the individual transfers. There is definitely a reason behind all of this. We may find out one day by putting 2 and 2 together...

 

[TxLite]

Good point on the individual transfers. There is definitely a reason behind all of this. We may find out one day by putting 2 and 2 together...

They recently came out and said they are prioritizing individual transfers. I’m wondering if that’s their reasoning as to why

 

[swavescatter]

I love a good conspiracy but it’s likely just a practical workflow explanation. A trust is another layer in the approval process, being a legal document. I can only imagine how many stupidly written trusts they see that are completely untenable. Look at those “Global citizen” constitutionalist yahoos going around flaunting dui checkpoints and border crossings.

Individual approval is pretty black and white.

Also, birds aren’t real.

 

[crich]

They recently came out and said they are prioritizing individual transfers. I’m wondering if that’s their reasoning as to why

Once a trust is registered folks can add and subtract whoever they want and the ATF would lose sight of who even has the item. This way they can keep tabs on folks. Its definitely a slick way to get a bunch of people to jump on the list because of FOMO.

 

[RockAndSage]

It might also have something to do with budget leverage - this happened almost exactly the same time Congress is looking at axing big chunks of ATF's budget, along with FBI and a few other agencies.

Here's how that might be an angle of ATF playing DC games with this:

- Suppressors are by far the most common place a Congressman's constituents with have contact with ATF as a bureaucracy (4473s don't count here).
- Huge numbers of new suppressor sales are happening because of this quick approval getting viral coverage in the shooting community, creating "more demand for ATF services".
- After months and months of quick approvals, suddenly they start taking months or a year again...while ATF blames "budget cuts and increased demand" as the problem, and points back to the time right now where they had plenty of money to "be efficient".
- All sorts of congressmen get all sorts of calls from constituents complaining about this, making the easy thing to do be bumping up ATF's budget again.

 

[spike camp]

I kinda thought the same thing…
Anything linked to anything ATF, Biden or whatever, can’t be on the level.

I’ve got 4 cans in jail, we shall see…

 

[CorbLand]

I don’t think they need people buying suppressors to get a pseudo registry…they have one of those already. It’s called a 4473.

 

[MuleyFever]

 

[TxLite]

Good timing on this one

Faster NFA Approval Times: BREAKING NEWS!

Experience unprecedented speed in NFA wait times with the ATF's latest improvements! Discover how trust bundling, electronic submissions via Silencer Shop, and the Single Shot trust are revolutionizing the process, making obtaining suppressors faster and more efficient than ever before.

www.silencershop.com

 

[wesfromky]

Why would they need a registry when they have forums like this to track people? Cell phone data put you at a gun store or range? Ever buy anything gun related with a credit card? And, even if you are a super secret squirrel, it is trivial to build associations out to the 3rd or more degree. So, no, they do not need any kind of registry to know who has guns. Plus, for a trust, the initial RPs all submit prints and to background checks. And anyone you are likely to add can easily be found in your network of contacts.

 

[spike camp]

Why would they need a registry when they have forums like this to track people? Cell phone data put you at a gun store or range? Ever buy anything gun related with a credit card? And, even if you are a super secret squirrel, it is trivial to build associations out to the 3rd or more degree. So, no, they do not need any kind of registry to know who has guns. Plus, for a trust, the initial RPs all submit prints and to background checks. And anyone you are likely to add can easily be found in your network of contacts.

So you’re saying, the ATF is just trying to help?

 

[IDVortex]

And I'm overhere dealing with the website shutting down/not working when I try to certify. So I don't think the Feds are out to get me, it's SS.

 

[wesfromky]

So you’re saying, the ATF is just trying to help?

I am saying that the NFA sucks, and ATF is incompetent, but, they don't need to do anything for the government to know who has guns. I am not sure that people fully understand the extent that they are tracked these days. And, doing a bit of data mining to build association trees is trivial. So, I don't fear any registry type conspiracy theories because the truth about how pervasive tracking is today is out in the open.

 

[crich]

They definitely dont NEED ATF applications to create a database. Credit card companies are compromised along with all kinds of other methods that are used. This is just another tool in the toolbox.

They may have just improved their processes but the government isnt going to do anything to benefit firearm owners without a hidden agenda.

 

[Crowmangler]

Just because you ain't paranoid, don't mean they ain't out to get ya

 

[GoatPackr]

Could it have to do with recent Supreme Court stuff with 2A. Could they be trying to grab as much $$ as possible before suppressors are legalized?

Kris

 

[IDVortex]

Could it have to do with recent Supreme Court stuff with 2A. Could they be trying to grab as much $$ as possible before suppressors are legalized?

Kris

I doubt the control of cans is never going to go away. Especially considering the Feds get a 200 tax on each can.