Arrow Speed Question.

[N2TRKYS]

I’m not going specifically for speed, I want a higher FOC arrow with a decent speed so I’m not lobbing arrows at an elk.

There’s some good arrow companies out there that offer a lighter gpi arrow in stiff spines. This allows you to increase your FOC without getting crazy heavy and slow. Also, making sure you’re not shooting too long of an arrow helps.

 

[Beendare]

OP, there is a lot of noise out there on arrow builds.

I've killed hundreds of critters with arrows from 370gr to 840gr over the last 3+ decades, my take;
Don't over think it! The arrow setup you have right now will kill anything in North America!

Sure a heavier arrow has many advantages......the most notable being they make your bow whisper quiet [important] and heavier arrows improve penetration. Its a balancing act though....when you get down below 250fps the loss of trajectory is noticeable.

I would agree with MattB, FOC in my experience is the most over rated factor in bowhunting and it creates more problems than it solves if you get up in the high FOC range [close to or over 30% that some internet influencers recommend]

Best advice is to concentrate on perfect BH arrow flight.

FWIW, The majority of top bowhunters I know don't even know what their FOC is....but they do test for perfect arrow flight. And most shoot a 65# bow... in the 60#-70# range- for sure- with a 450gr to 500-ish gr arrow. Its telling that many of the experienced guys have settled on that as the perfect medium.

____

 

[Graf228]

I think 12-14 is plenty es

Is got a ton of bow at 62lbs my first year, was feeling great, dead on out to 60yds. Long story short, after 4-6hrs in a tree stand at 10-15 degrees, sitting down, I realized it took everything I had and the hand of God to get my bow back. I changed my practice shooting after that. I shoot kneeling, twisted, sitting on a bucket and of course standing. Do yourself a favor and practice as you’ll hunt! That means face mask, gloves etc it will boost your confidence big time and make you safer and less distracted in the trees! Don’t learn the hard way like I did

Been practicing with gloves and gear! Total game changer. I’m going to start shooting from different positions! Thank you for that advice! Didn’t think about the cold

I bought mine for 1100, the 28 you can grab for a grand. As I said before if your set on that bow you can expect a significant drop in November. If it were me I'd pick up a used Traverse now. I think that is the best bow Mathews ever produced. Longer ATA, and really good let off options.

Ill look into the Traverse! I appreciate all your help.

 

[theleo91386]

Do yourself a favor and move FOC down the list of things to consider when you are selecting your shafts/components. It is faddish IMO. Guys were killing animals with arrows long before FOC was a thing, and none of the guys I know who are really good at that know or care what their FOC is.

Pretty much this. What FOC is really useful for is maintaining YouTube subscribers and selling expensive components.

If I had your draw length (I'm at 28-28.5 with most bows) I'd only worry about FOC to the point of maybe using a 125gr BH instead of 100gr or maybe using a stainless steel insert instead of an aluminum one. BUT, I'm one of those crazy nut bags that gives up FOC to add a wrap and an extra fletch so my arrows are more visible and a little more forgiving.

 

[Graf228]

OP, there is a lot of noise out there on arrow builds.

I've killed hundreds of critters with arrows from 370gr to 840gr over the last 3+ decades, my take;
Don't over think it! The arrow setup you have right now will kill anything in North America!

Sure a heavier arrow has many advantages......the most notable being they make your bow whisper quiet [important] and heavier arrows improve penetration. Its a balancing act though....when you get down below 250fps the loss of trajectory is noticeable.

I would agree with MattB, FOC in my experience is the most over rated factor in bowhunting and it creates more problems than it solves if you get up in the high FOC range [close to or over 30% that some internet influencers recommend]

Best advice is to concentrate on perfect BH arrow flight.

FWIW, The majority of top bowhunters I know don't even know what their FOC is....but they do test for perfect arrow flight. And most shoot a 65# bow... in the 60#-70# range- for sure- with a 450gr to 500-ish gr arrow. Its telling that many of the experienced guys have settled on that as the perfect medium.

____

Great information, I’m honestly over thinking it, quite over whelmed at all the different Options of arrows and such, but I’ll hold off on building arrows until I get a newer bow with a bit higher FPS. Plus who doesn’t like an upgrade? Thank you for your help, I do appreciate it!

 

[Graf228]

Pretty much this. What FOC is really useful for is maintaining YouTube subscribers and selling expensive components.

If I had your draw length (I'm at 28-28.5 with most bows) I'd only worry about FOC to the point of maybe using a 125gr BH instead of 100gr or maybe using a stainless steel insert instead of an aluminum one. BUT, I'm one of those crazy nut bags that gives up FOC to add a wrap and an extra fletch so my arrows are more visible and a little more forgiving.

That’s pretty much what I plan on doing, I’m going to stick to a 150gr BH at the highest and use a brass or stainless insert to achieve the higher FOC

 

[MattB]

There are so many factors for an archer to get caught up in, but I wouldn't move FOC too far down the list. I think people were killing animals with heavier FOC and heavier arrows and just didn't pay attention to it as much back then. The old aluminum arrows and Thunderhead broadheads I used probably were unintentionally desirable in terms of higher FOC and overall weight. I think there's an argument that super fast and light arrows is equally faddish. All that said, I think there's a happy medium for each hunter to find out for themselves.

Overall weight, yes. FOC, no. The shafts were heavy GPI which reduces FOC, all else equal.

 

[WhatToHunt]

Overall weight, yes. FOC, no. The shafts were heavy GPI which reduces FOC, all else equal.

You're right! I was a dummy and I think someone corrected my mistake too. That's what I get for trying to contribute.

 

[Ar50A1]

Been practicing with gloves and gear! Total game changer. I’m going to start shooting from different positions! Thank you for that advice! Didn’t think about the cold

Ill look into the Traverse! I appreciate all your help.

No problem, best of luck man! I learned the hard way, just spreading any knowledge I can

 

[Beendare]

That’s pretty much what I plan on doing, I’m going to stick to a 150gr BH at the highest and use a brass or stainless insert to achieve the higher FOC

So after all of that....you are still brainwashed by the Ashby crowd and the Fairy dusters claiming FOC is a big factor.?

Heck, even Ashby has changed his tune on the importance of FOC over the years after many folks have asked for actual proof of his silly theories that high FOC arrows fly further and penetrate better. The physics guys at UC Berkeley laughed his 'Fly further" research out of publication as this defies the laws of physics. That hasn't stopped him from using it with rubber bands in his dog and pony show.

You do know he uses weighted straws and rubber bands to prove his uber FOC hogwash- right? When everyone asked to see all of his supposed "Data" it seems he cannot produce any of it.

No one has ever proven that Massive FOC over 30% like in Ashby's original theories does anything. Easton [who essentially invented those arrows] still recommends 8-16% FOC....and every single pro in every archery discipline is within this guideline [speaks volumes]

Arrow weight on the other hand is a big contributor to penetration.

Bottom line...a good flying arrow of just about any weight with an efficient BH will kill anything in NA.

______

 

[powds]

Don’t get too caught up in the numbers. Have to see what works for you and your bow and arrow configurations

 

[Dayv_33]

Don’t get too caught up in the numbers. Have to see what works for you and your bow and arrow configurations

agreed!

 

[Ar50A1]

So after all of that....you are still brainwashed by the Ashby crowd and the Fairy dusters claiming FOC is a big factor.?

Heck, even Ashby has changed his tune on the importance of FOC over the years after many folks have asked for actual proof of his silly theories that high FOC arrows fly further and penetrate better. The physics guys at UC Berkeley laughed his 'Fly further" research out of publication as this defies the laws of physics. That hasn't stopped him from using it with rubber bands in his dog and pony show.

You do know he uses weighted straws and rubber bands to prove his uber FOC hogwash- right? When everyone asked to see all of his supposed "Data" it seems he cannot produce any of it.

No one has ever proven that Massive FOC over 30% like in Ashby's original theories does anything. Easton [who essentially invented those arrows] still recommends 8-16% FOC....and every single pro in every archery discipline is within this guideline [speaks volumes]

Arrow weight on the other hand is a big contributor to penetration.

Bottom line...a good flying arrow of just about any weight with an efficient BH will kill anything in NA.

______

FOC isn’t a myth, also helps keep your arrow from deflecting on 1/4ing shots. Who runs 30% 16-18% is max I’ve ever heard anyone use.

 

[Gerard Marcaurele]

I wouldn’t worry too much about FOC or arrow speed. Get something that tunes well and get a sharp COC head off you’re worried about penetration.

This pig was with a 45# bow, 500 ish grain arrow, and it skewered it. My arrow likely wasn’t doing any more than 160fps.

 

[Pascoutsniper]

Love going stiffer spine and losing up the front end with insert and heavy Broadhead

 

[CrispySmurf]

I'm shooting a similar setup to you with DL and DW. Im shooting a Mathews TX-5, and got a hold of info from Dr. Ashby and Ranch Fairy (check him out on youtube, he is on the advisory board of the Ashby Foundation). I like him ebcause he has no "skin" in the game...isn't making any money off of YT, nor is he pushing any specific products. I sent him an email and he blew my mind. I was concerned about the same things you mention. He pointed me to a sweet Sirus Vulcan arrow with a FOC build. Then he proceeded to send me pictures of men, women, and children shooting 40-60lbs and getting pass-through's on everything from African Cape to whitetail to hogs. I would post pics, but they aren't mine to distribute, but Im sure you can email "Ranch Fairy" and he'll respond with great info and supporting pics.

It truly blew my mind. so much so, that I've bumped my DW up to like 63-65lbs, and now I'm shooting a 522 gr arrow. However, I'm currently second guessing myself (new to bowhunting) on the SIK F4's I bought (QAD Exodus 125's would be better or any 125 for a "Ranch Fairy/ Dr. Ashby setup) in regards to wind and arrow flight. I also have some SK2's. so, I'm on the fence, but one thing is for sure. Ranch Fairy and Dr. Ashby's "school of thought" has been proven time and time again.

I'd recommend you take a look at a TX-5 for shorter DL (not sure if they have a similar new model).

Just my $0.02.

Good luck on your endeavors!
-Crispy

 

[Sobrbiker]

What distance are all the RF/Ashby builds that are so awesome being shot at?
If I can’t shoot 60-100yds I don’t care how cool my FOC is.
I started archery with bowhunting as the goal one year ago, with a 60# 28” Elite. I went down the skinny arrow/high FOC rabbit hole and never shot any better at distance than the V-Force Gamers I started with.
I actually chrono’d and shot at distance and played with FOC and shaft weight, inserts, etc and found that MY setup shot best to 100yds and had max momentum at 255fps with the cheap VForce .300 arrows, three blazers and 125gr up front for a total weight of 450gr at 12.1 FOC.
I’m consistent and confident with this setup, and hopefully it’ll do if I get within range of an elk next month. It broke ribs and went through the offside shoulder blade of my Coues buck (and about 10yds past) last month at 90+ yds with a 125 Exodus.
I won’t shoot that far on elk for sure, but i will say that finding what arrow setup flies the most consistent out of your setup at all distances you’d dream of shooting, and then practicing ALOT with that will take you further than online pondering will (at least that’s my experience up to this point in time).
Cheers, my advice may be worth exactly what you paid for it

 

[CrispySmurf]

What distance are all the RF/Ashby builds that are so awesome being shot at?
If I can’t shoot 60-100yds I don’t care how cool my FOC is.
I started archery with bowhunting as the goal one year ago, with a 60# 28” Elite. I went down the skinny arrow/high FOC rabbit hole and never shot any better at distance than the V-Force Gamers I started with.
I actually chrono’d and shot at distance and played with FOC and shaft weight, inserts, etc and found that MY setup shot best to 100yds and had max momentum at 255fps with the cheap VForce .300 arrows, three blazers and 125gr up front for a total weight of 450gr at 12.1 FOC.
I’m consistent and confident with this setup, and hopefully it’ll do if I get within range of an elk next month. It broke ribs and went through the offside shoulder blade of my Coues buck (and about 10yds past) last month at 90+ yds with a 125 Exodus.
I won’t shoot that far on elk for sure, but i will say that finding what arrow setup flies the most consistent out of your setup at all distances you’d dream of shooting, and then practicing ALOT with that will take you further than online pondering will (at least that’s my experience up to this point in time).
Cheers, my advice may be worth exactly what you paid for it

I disagree strongly with what you think is important, namely "60-100yd" shots. Also wasn't looking for anything from you. Just trying to give OP a suggestion. Carry on though...

 

[Sobrbiker]

Just trying to give OP a suggestion. Carry on though...

As was I...

The OP brought up Ashby/FOC.
Welcome to the slide.

 

[CrispySmurf]

My apologies.