Arrow building questions

[Vandy321]

Have not gotten into the science of arrows as much as I have reloading rifles.

That being said...can someone suggest to me a few things on an arrow build?

Planning to use the Black Ovis arrow builder...

Shooting 27" draw, 65# RH
Easton Axis 340 spine, 27.5" shaft
125gr points, standard inserts (probably mess around with weighted inserts as well for FOC, a 6" arrow wrap for some extra weight

My question is on fletching. Going to give the AAE Stealth or AAE hunter or similar a try.
Straight 3 fletch or RH twist? 1 degree, 2 degree?

If I had to guess, these will be about 250FPS from my bow, if that helps determine an appropriate fletching offset?

Any inputs would be appreciated

Helical...offset? Not sure what's what?

 

[doncarpenter]

I have settled on like 1 to 2 degree offset for my arrows. In my own testing helical slowed down my arrows more than an offset, and didn't steer the arrows any better. Left or right doesn't matter for me either. Maybe if I was a way better shot it would make more of a difference.

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[Vandy321]

Confused on offset vs hellical...shouldnt they offer a degree of helical too? Not just right or left?

 

[Piscatory_4]

Helical will offer a little more drag and thus stabilizing. It wraps around the shaft VS just being angled on the shaft. You can do helical with offset too if you want. They are slightly different.

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[Vandy321]

How do you know what you need? Not planning to shoot and re-fletch these a handful of times.

I guess just pick something and go for it? Like everything else on the internet, will read 5 posts arguing for each option...so maybe they're all a good option?

Helical will spin a broadhead better, but also add drag...can offset spin broadhead just fine though? The archery world seems to be pretty non-specific/non scientific...is it because it's really not going to make a huge difference with an arrow either way and you can in theory shoot 5" at 50 yards regardless of how you have your arrows fletched?

 

[cuttiebrownbow]

I like helical for fixed blades but if I am sticking with mechanicals then a 1 or 2 degree offset does the job just fine for me.


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[bradr3367]

How do you know what you need? Not planning to shoot and re-fletch these a handful of times.

I guess just pick something and go for it? Like everything else on the internet, will read 5 posts arguing for each option...so maybe they're all a good option?

Helical will spin a broadhead better, but also add drag...can offset spin broadhead just fine though? The archery world seems to be pretty non-specific/non scientific...is it because it's really not going to make a huge difference with an arrow either way and you can in theory shoot 5" at 50 yards regardless of how you have your arrows fletched?

It's not gonna make a huge difference either way. I've shot both with equal accuracy. I prefer helical because it just looks cool. Make sure your bow is tuned, fletch up those shafts, and let em fly. John Dudley has some good arrow building vids that are worth watching too.

 

[Elkhntr08]

A arrow stabilizes two ways spinning ( helical) and being nose heavy (FOC). The faster you can start the spinning, the better it will stabilize. I prefer a right helical with the Blazers that I use. Stabilizes the ViperTricks and Iron Will perfectly.

 

[dkime]

How do you know what you need? Not planning to shoot and re-fletch these a handful of times.

I guess just pick something and go for it? Like everything else on the internet, will read 5 posts arguing for each option...so maybe they're all a good option?

Helical will spin a broadhead better, but also add drag...can offset spin broadhead just fine though? The archery world seems to be pretty non-specific/non scientific...is it because it's really not going to make a huge difference with an arrow either way and you can in theory shoot 5" at 50 yards regardless of how you have your arrows fletched?

Std. Dev. of a bow is far less (essentially 0fps for all practical purposes) than what you are accustomed to dealing with. Twist rate and direction will have minimal impact on your POI shift. The issue right now is not knowing what sort of broadhead and style of hunting you plan on partaking in as well as what sort of ideology you want to adhere to in terms of velocity vs momentum. Most people learn by doing exactly as you said, but I determine fletching direction based on what I am shooting. This isn't going to help you much because I assume you're shooting a fall away rest but a Rh shooter, shooting off a blade rest or full capture with a stiffer section at the bottom of the rest, will determine fletching direction based on what sort of clearance they need for their fletching length, height, and cable guard clearance. What I mean by this is if we use a RH clamp with an aggressive helical (2-3) on a fletching longer than 2.75" you will limit your cable guard clearance and ability to manipulate those cable positions because by the time you have clearance on the front of your vane for your rest, it has rotated about the shaft and is now 90 degrees toward the cable harness. If you are RH and use a LH fletching direction, you gain this clearance back. (I am skipping a lot of details and making a bunch of assumptions here, again most of this is impractical but its just information)

A higher vane will offer more stabilization because it applies more torque about the centerline of the shaft thus stabilizing it faster, the issue with a higher vane is clearance. To my knowledge no one has effectively tested the difference between vane length and vane height, however if you look at most high level outdoor shooters, they all have fairly short arrows and skinny arrows to prevent wind planning with enough vane to stabilize the shaft. So in my opinion a shorter, higher vane will outperform a longer lower vane. Of course this is all perspective because if your arrow is setup perfect for YOU, none of it matters, and a bareshaft will fly perfectly.

All of this is to say, just pick a vane that looks cool. I shoot AAE Hybrid 26s because they are super easy to fletch. If I were having someone else build my arrows I may shoot something different, but who knows?

Helical or offset will never add enough drag (speed loss and noise) to warrant the potential loss in accuracy that could be associated with it. I assure you that whatever you pick will have far less impact on your success in the end than an accurate arrow will.

Larger vanes can be used to manipulate your spine a bit more than a smaller vane, so that too is something to consider. But at your specs you could shoot anything that you want as long as you're not planning on shooting a sh*tty flying large broadhead.

 

[5MilesBack]

Experiment......that's half the fun. I fletch my Quickspins straight, and my Q2i Fusion Xii's with just a right offset. Both work very well for fixed heads at long range, while not inducing so much drag that they drop like crazy.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Confused on offset vs hellical...shouldnt they offer a degree of helical too? Not just right or left?

I agree that their terminology is confusing (but not unusual). Any vane fletched at an offset angle to the shaft will by definition follow a helical path along the arrow. To be fully specified, their "helical" offering should include the angle between the base of the vane and the center of the arrow shaft, but I don't think I've ever seen helical fletching offered at a specified angle. I would interpret "helical" as equivalent to 4-5° offset.

Straight and/or offset vanes are applied using a jig with a straight clamp rotated to the specified angle (0-3° in this case) relative to the center axis of the arrow. In my experience, a 3° offset angle is about the practical limit when using a straight clamp. Beyond 3° it becomes difficult to get the front and back ends of the vane to both stay in contact with the shaft when gluing the vane on. A shorter vane or larger diameter shaft allows for greater offset angle with a straight clamp, but there's always going to be a limit. A "helical" clamp (sometimes called "true helical") extends that limit due to the curved shape of the clamp, which helps follow the curvature of the shaft and keep the vane in full contact when gluing it on. The instruction manual for a Bitzenburger jig has some good visuals of straight vs. helical clamps and fletching technique. I haven't seen an angle advertised with helical fletching jigs/clamps, but I'd guess they achieve something in the neighborhood of a 4-5° offset.

can offset spin broadhead just fine though?

Yes, offset fletching will induce rotation of the arrow. The greater the offset angle, the faster the spin rate.

I guess just pick something and go for it?

Pretty much. If you like to tinker, get a Bitzenburger jig, fletch up several combinations of vane quantity/height/length/offset angle and shoot groups to find the most accurate combo. If you want to just make one choice and stick with it, you'll have to take an educated guess informed by general principles and the type of broadhead you plan to shoot (more BH surface area needs more fletching).

Drag force acting on the fletching is what enables the fletching to steer the arrow and compensate for imperfect shot execution, an out-of-tune bow, and the planing tendencies of broadheads. Drag force is proportional to surface area, so more vanes and/or longer/taller vanes will generate more drag and have greater steering ability. A greater degree of offset (or "helical") will also increase drag by orienting more of the vane's surface area perpendicular to the flight path. The downsides of more fletching are that drag slows the arrow down and that more vanes, taller vanes, and greater offset angles can cause clearance issues. Any contact between the fletching and cable, rest or sight housing is unacceptable, but that likely won't be an issue unless you're using exceptionally tall vanes.

As a point of reference, I've been able to get good broadhead-to-field point grouping out to 75 yds shooting 150 gr Cutthroat broadheads with three 2" Blazer vanes at 3° offset out of a well-tuned bow.

 

[Vandy321]

Have slick tricks right now, would like to shoot Iron Will 125s...just ordered on Blackovis...I dont have the desire to learn to fletch at the moment, too much going on and reloading already takes up too much of my free time. Went with a right helical, figure if they are too slow, I can have someone local throw some new fletching on with an offset.

Went with the AAE max stealth. Shooting over a QAD ultra rest.

 

[dkime]

Have slick tricks right now, would like to shoot Iron Will 125s...just ordered on Blackovis...I dont have the desire to learn to fletch at the moment, too much going on and reloading already takes up too much of my free time. Went with a right helical, figure if they are too slow, I can have someone local throw some new fletching on with an offset.

Went with the AAE max stealth. Shooting over a QAD ultra rest.

What would “too slow” consist of? Is there a number you’re trying to hit?


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[BowhuntingBrune3]

I got one for you guys cause I am an idiot. I put some outserts on a deep impact and before I glued them I dry fit everything but now i can't get one of them off. Any idea's? I was thinking about trying to heat it up and pull it off.

 

[dkime]

Use a drill bit to knock it oit from the back side


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[BRTreedogs]

3° offset is the most common for what that is worth.
Offset is a straight clamp, turned 3° from straight with the arrow.
Helical is a curved clamp, 3° off. Wrapping the vane around the arrow more.
Or whatever degree you choose.

There no exact science. Every step will require something different technically. Bow,spine,broadhead,dl etc all play.

Now weather or not your a good enough shooter to tell the difference is another story.

I am not

 

[BowhuntingBrune3]

Use a drill bit to knock it oit from the back side


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So shake it up and down once it’s in?

 

[dkime]

So shake it up and down once it’s in?

Swing it, like you’re trying to split wood. Just pay attention to where it goes and make sure no one is around. Not because of injury, but you don’t want anyone thinking your casting spells or sh*t like that lol


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[BowhuntingBrune3]

Swing it, like you’re trying to split wood. Just pay attention to where it goes and make sure no one is around. Not because of injury, but you don’t want anyone thinking your casting spells or sh*t like that lol


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Haha sounds good thanks!

 

[MattB]

Swing it, like you’re trying to split wood. Just pay attention to where it goes and make sure no one is around. Not because of injury, but you don’t want anyone thinking your casting spells or sh*t like that lol


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Put a sandwich bag over the point end and use a rubber band to attach it on the shaft.