Arrow building- next level (Spine Indexing, bareshaft tuning)

[RevJT]

There's a lot of black magic out there about how to set up shafts. A lot of practices you read about (especially on forums) are outdated, voodoo, or both.

I'm not a pro shooter, but I do trust a few who consistently win at high levels of archery and tend to trust their advice.

Two resources to check out on this journey:

1. Tim Gillingham's talk at the 2021 ATA show walks through a solid arrow tuning process
2. Watch Jesse Broadwater's Vimeo class on how to set up a bow. You'll have to spend some coin, but it's fantastic, legit, and methodical advice from one of the finest archers living.

3. There's a guy named Padgett over on ArcheryTalk. Look him up on there. He's a semi pro 3D shooter from down in Alabama. If you pay him $10, you can get access to his online articles, and a few of those go through a detailed tuning process. He diverges slightly from Gillingham here -- he does bare shaft tune nock his arrows, but not to get a perfect tear necessarilly, only to make sure that all the shafts tear the same through paper.

This is a critical point to accept and Wapitibob made the point well. I will repeat it for emphasis. It does not matter what the bathtub float or the spine tester or the little mark Victory puts on the arrow says -- what happens to the arrow coming out of the bow matters most. This is the arrows dynamic reaction, aka dynamic spine. One point to add: you can really only bare shaft nock tune if your form is dialed. If you are a little inconsistent with your form, you'll see that in the bareshaft paper tears. Also, your bow needs to be supertuned. Phenomenal form and a supertuned bow can get bullet hold bareshaft holes with every arrow out to 15 maybe 20 yards if you are a stud. You need to see the same tear every time with every arrow. That's a goal anyway. At that point, put a mark on the arrow to where it nock tunes dynamically, then you can fletch to that.

Last piece of voodoo -- I've seen target archers accept a little bit of tear on their final tune. Basically, they get the bow group tuned to shoot the best field point rounds they possibly can, then you go back to either bare shaft tune or paper tune and crap there's a tear! They leave the tear because who cares the bow is shooting stinkin lights out. However, if you are hunting (especially with fixed heads) that tear could cause broadhead planing, which you obviously don't want. So, for optimal target setups I shoot what groups best with my field point arrows and will accept a little tear. For optimal broadhead setups, I don't generally accept a tear at all and strive for perfect bareshaft bullet holes with all my arrows so that broadhead is leaving perfectly straight. Again, I'm not a pro and don't hear a lot of talk on this last concept so take it with a grain of salt.

We are talking about super fancy high level arrow building, but it sounds like that's the direction you are trying to go so best of luck.

Just think, you'll never have to fill that bath tub again! For arrows anyway.

I’ll try and follow this (all) over the next week or so. Really appreciate the info. I’m not even considered mediocre or average but I do like the science.

I had watched Tims series (Gold Tip Supertuning) from 3 years ago, and when I YouTube the above, I realized I had not seen this one referenced from 2021.

Thank you for the great info!

Btw, I did get almost the same exact reaction through paper at about 12’ with 6 different bare shafts, after nock tuning all 6. So maybe I’m headed in a good direction.

Again, thanks

 

[Holocene]

Good deal and good luck.

At 12' (4 yards) you'll want to shoot pretty much perfect bullet holes with a bare shaft and tape on the rear of the arrow (blue painters tape works great) grain matched to your fletching.

What is your tear at that distance? 1/4" in some direction? Or like a 6" tear? 1/4" you could live with. If it's quite a bit more than that, you'll want to tune out the bare shaft tear to be as close to a bullet hole as possible out to about 12 yards not just 12 feet. With rest at 13/16" centershot, you should be able to get super close and then perfect it with tiny, micro movements of the rest (1/32nd , 1/16th of an inch for example) until your bare shafts are flying super super straight through the paper. At that point, if you shoot a fletched shaft and bare shaft into a target, they'll be hitting almost dead nuts together and that bare shaft will be pointing straight into the target. This all shows that you've cleaned up nock travel and your arrows are coming out your bow super straight.

At that point, mark your 12 o clock position on the arrows, fletch, and confirm everything like Tim shows by shooting fletched shafts through paper. You might have to make some fine adjustments.

 

[RevJT]

So I had three arrows shooting bullet holes. It could be me/grip/torque. I probably need to try side plates again.

Plus, I was already two hash marks to the left of 13/16 on Hamskea Epsilon. So I went back to 13/16 and made a bottom top hat switch. I swapped out the set for the next corresponding set which took me to 4 arrows shooting bullets out of 6 with no rest movement. Much better!

My current tare is about 1/4. I’ll keep nock tuning, but I do believe I have some form issues.

This has been very helpful!!

 

[Button]

When I am shooting bare shafts and rotating nocks I shoot the same arrow until I get at least 3 in a row that are perfect with perfect form. I’m not a great archer by any means and it seems (to me) that I can tell when my form and release are less than adequate.

 

[RevJT]

When I am shooting bare shafts and rotating nocks I shoot the same arrow until I get at least 3 in a row that are perfect with perfect form. I’m not a great archer by any means and it seems (to me) that I can tell when my form and release are less than adequate.

Yes, I noticed that with my inconsistencies also. I can shoot a bullet hole and then shoot that arrow again and I’ll have a small tear.

I’m shooting Matthews V3X 29. The engage grip has not ever been good for my hand. I think I’m going to order me a set of side plates. Plus the shorter axle to axle is less forgiving. I think most of what I’m saying is my own flaw.

 

[Billy Goat]

Yes, I noticed that with my inconsistencies also. I can shoot a bullet hole and then shoot that arrow again and I’ll have a small tear.

I’m shooting Matthews V3X 29. The engage grip has not ever been good for my hand. I think I’m going to order me a set of side plates. Plus the shorter axle to axle is less forgiving. I think most of what I’m saying is my own flaw.

Try the ultraview. It helped my grip a lot over the engage. Little more of a high wrist, then the flat back to help with torque. It's kinda like a Hoyt grip angle on a Mathews.

The side plates didn't work for me, but everyone is different.

If you decide you need grip tape, I'd just be go get racket tape instead of any specialty archery grip tape.


I find just shooting bareshafts at 15-20 yards easier than paper. Really you could be doing it at 10. The problem with paper is unless you have a huge target being the paper, you are peaking trying to be certain you are on the back stop. Then you need to move the paper a lot. Can't hit same spot, so you go left/right for a little while, then you start going over/under. When you get to going over under you start messing with your form, squatting or getting up on your toes. Best thing is to just have a roll of paper hanging that you keep pulling it down shooting fresh holes into.


I just find shooting into a target easier, and it doesn't take a magnifying glass to tell what exactly is happening. It's pretty obvious. I have had to help plenty that had their bow "tuned" to begin with that was shooting bullets in paper. I just wouldn't spend but too much time on it, unless you don't have anywhere to shoot further. That's the only benefit, shooting in a small garage or basement when it's cold or dark outside.

 

[5MilesBack]

I find just shooting bareshafts at 15-20 yards easier than paper.

I just find shooting into a target easier, and it doesn't take a magnifying glass to tell what exactly is happening. It's pretty obvious.

A couple years ago every one of my BS's were left of fletched FP's and nock right at 20 yards. I tried all the yoke tuning and they wouldn't correct. So I set everything back to where I started and tried BH's at 40 yards. BH's were right of FP's consistently in the same spot. Well, those are completely opposite tuning adjustments from the 20 yard BS's. So I shot some BS's from 40. BS's were hitting with the BH's right of fletched FP's. So that's what I tuned to, and some minor yoke adjustments brought both BH's and BS's to the fletched FP's. I even thought it might be grip torque, so I set a target at 20 yards between me and the 40 yard target. I'd draw and then pick which target to shoot at............same thing kept happening.

So these days I just go straight to 40 yards now and do my initial BS tuning there, and then go to 60 yard BH tuning. I too prefer shooting at targets instead of through paper.

 

[RevJT]

Try the ultraview. It helped my grip a lot over the engage. Little more of a high wrist, then the flat back to help with torque. It's kinda like a Hoyt grip angle on a Mathews.

The side plates didn't work for me, but everyone is different.

If you decide you need grip tape, I'd just be go get racket tape instead of any specialty archery grip tape.


I find just shooting bareshafts at 15-20 yards easier than paper. Really you could be doing it at 10. The problem with paper is unless you have a huge target being the paper, you are peaking trying to be certain you are on the back stop. Then you need to move the paper a lot. Can't hit same spot, so you go left/right for a little while, then you start going over/under. When you get to going over under you start messing with your form, squatting or getting up on your toes. Best thing is to just have a roll of paper hanging that you keep pulling it down shooting fresh holes into.


I just find shooting into a target easier, and it doesn't take a magnifying glass to tell what exactly is happening. It's pretty obvious. I have had to help plenty that had their bow "tuned" to begin with that was shooting bullets in paper. I just wouldn't spend but too much time on it, unless you don't have anywhere to shoot further. That's the only benefit, shooting in a small garage or basement when it's cold or dark outside.

I may try the Ultraview.

I do have a large roll of paper and a full size bag for a stop.

 

[RevJT]

A couple years ago every one of my BS's were left of fletched FP's and nock right at 20 yards. I tried all the yoke tuning and they wouldn't correct. So I set everything back to where I started and tried BH's at 40 yards. BH's were right of FP's consistently in the same spot. Well, those are completely opposite tuning adjustments from the 20 yard BS's. So I shot some BS's from 40. BS's were hitting with the BH's right of fletched FP's. So that's what I tuned to, and some minor yoke adjustments brought both BH's and BS's to the fletched FP's. I even thought it might be grip torque, so I set a target at 20 yards between me and the 40 yard target. I'd draw and then pick which target to shoot at............same thing kept happening.

So these days I just go straight to 40 yards now and do my initial BS tuning there, and then go to 60 yard BH tuning. I too prefer shooting at targets instead of through paper.

Great info! Thank you!

 

[Billy Goat]

A couple years ago every one of my BS's were left of fletched FP's and nock right at 20 yards. I tried all the yoke tuning and they wouldn't correct. So I set everything back to where I started and tried BH's at 40 yards. BH's were right of FP's consistently in the same spot. Well, those are completely opposite tuning adjustments from the 20 yard BS's. So I shot some BS's from 40. BS's were hitting with the BH's right of fletched FP's. So that's what I tuned to, and some minor yoke adjustments brought both BH's and BS's to the fletched FP's. I even thought it might be grip torque, so I set a target at 20 yards between me and the 40 yard target. I'd draw and then pick which target to shoot at............same thing kept happening.

So these days I just go straight to 40 yards now and do my initial BS tuning there, and then go to 60 yard BH tuning. I too prefer shooting at targets instead of through paper.

Yeah, I'm not at all saying BS is it, just where i start. I always broadhead tune as a final on a hunting bow. Just makes your broadhead targets last longer when you start with bareshafts.

Face pressure can lead to problems with bareshafts, as well as grip.

 

[kodiakfisher]

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this article!!! I have been struggling with broadhead flight and had floated my arrows to find spine then fletched them all exactly the same and guess what those damn arrows didn't fly the same. Well this weekend I shot 4hrs over 150 arrows @40yds and wrote everything down and started the nock tuning process and bingo....slight differences between static and dynamic spine (plus I am slightly weak but at longer distance 60+ some argue this is better). Everything shooting perfect at 40yds so thank you all.

My apologies for reviving an old thread but this one deserves is.

Kodiakfisher