Arrow build - wind drift

[Blandry]

Not many people talk of drift in their arrow builds but my 450gr arrows drift about 8'' in a good sidewind compared to my 590gr which we have out here in the mountain west.

Seems like more are worried about drop than wind drift and I really can't find anything really discussing that.

It was extreme this year above 8k feet and I did a lot of outdoor practice but didn't hunt this year due to being a new resident in CO. I want to kind of have a good reference for wind drift when I do..

if I'm talking silly let me know lol

 

[Blandry]

I located this article but it doesn't really say anything about arrow weight.. crucial.

I'm sure you all are aware of this but I've been hunting hogs and whitetail in TX and LA the past 20 years. This massive wind we had last season in the west and WY made me rethink things. I went all the way to a 600gr arrow to beat the wind out to 40 yds

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Bowhunting: How to Deal With Wind

Shooting in wind is one of the most daunting tasks bowhunters face. However, there are a few things archers can do to mitigate the effects of nature’s blow.

www.americanhunter.org

 

[jimh406]

I don't think it's that specific to arrows except you do have the option of using a heavier front broadhead. However, if the broadhead is very wide, you'll need more vanes/feathers to control it. It is similar to a bullet ballistic coefficient.

In other words, small diameter shafts with smaller profile broadhead and small vanes/feathers will do better in the wind. Also, with all else being equal a faster arrow will drift less.

 

[Rob5589]

I listened to a podcast discussing wind drift and their finding was the vane/feather profile had the largest impact on drift. I'll have to see if I can find the episode.

 

[Blandry]

I listened to a podcast discussing wind drift and their finding was the vane/feather profile had the largest impact on drift. I'll have to see if I can find the episode.

yes, that's what I'm observing. wind speed is constantly changing so you can't really pin it on one thing but my 3 fletch drift far more than my four fletch.. that could be it.

I guess I should have included that important part!

I'm going to be building an arrow that's around 75gr lighter than my 590's this year. Same arrow but 75gr lighter and 3 fletch vs 4 and increased FOC. Same arrow just 340 vs 300, different in/outsert config, same build, just 3 vs 4 vane and 75gr lighter.. should be interesting to see how it fights wind.

I don't have the time to binge watch archery vids but are 4 fletch going to beat wind better than 3? I guess I could today with my rare time off work.

 

[BBob]

my 3 fletch drift far more than my four fletch.. that could be it.

What vanes did you use? Were the same vanes used for both or were different vanes used? If different were the 3’s a larger or higher profile than the 4’s?

 

[Blandry]

This is interesting but they NEVER mention arrow weight

 

[Blandry]

What vanes did you use? Were the same vanes used for both or were different vanes used? If different were the 3’s a larger or higher profile than the 4’s?

Oh no they are different vanes. The 3's are a higher profile and the 4 fletch are lower and longer, however 4.

 

[Blandry]

I just wanted to make sure I was in my right mind by going to a 3 vane, lighter arrow with increased FOC it would break wind ha! like my heavier arrows.

 

[Jimbob]

Oh no they are different vanes. The 3's are a higher profile and the 4 fletch are lower and longer, however 4.

That's the reason your heavier four-fletch do better in the wind. Also, higher FOC will do better in the wind.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

The general equation for displacement of a moving body is: D = V × T + 0.5 × A × T²

D = displacement​

V = initial velocity in direction of displacement​

A = acceleration in direction of displacement​

T = time elapsed​

Acceleration due to crosswind is equivalent to the drag force exerted on the arrow by the wind (F) divided by the arrow's mass (M): A = F/M

Time of flight is the distance traveled from bow to target (X) divided by the arrow's average speed (S): T = X/S

So if D is wind drift:
D = V × (X/S) + 0.5 × (F/M) × (X/S)²

V in this case is 0 because at the moment of launch the arrow is moving toward the target only, not in the direction of the wind, so:
D = 0.5 × F × X² / (M × S²)

For two arrows "a" and "b" with the same profile (i.e., same head/point, shaft length/diameter, fletching configuration) shot at the same distance in the same wind conditions F and X are equal, so the ratio of their wind drifts is: D,a / D,b = (M × S²),b / (M × S²),a

Phrased another way: the arrow with the larger product of weight (M) and average speed squared (S²) will drift less, all other factors equal. However, this doesn't tell us definitively if a heavier or lighter arrow will drift more because arrow weight and speed are inversely related. Using the empirical data below (from a THP/RF video posted a while back) and assuming linear deceleration from 0 to 60 yds, the M × S² values suggest that heavier arrows should drift less in the wind (all else equal).


IMO fletching choice is likely to have more impact on wind drift than arrow weight. More vanes and longer/taller vanes increase the sideways force exerted by the wind on the arrow.

 

[Marble]

Smaller diameter arrows are also what are used by all of the 3d shooters because of wind. The length and width of that shaft creates a lot of surface area to be blown by the wind.they can shoot the big 27 x cutters and don't, because of wind. Then they have low profile vanes and usually decent point weight. But not a lot compared to what a lot of guys here want.

I would not shoot 590 out west, and I wouldn't worry about wind. Most people can't judged it well enough to know.

I think you would be better off shooting a 5mm arrow in the high 450-500 range. A moderately low profile vane and decent overall point weight.

Guys are making arrow building super complicated. It really isn't. You don't ne3d super high FOC or super heavy arrows. Concentrate more on form, practice, practice practiceand have a good broadhead and a well tuned bow. All are more important than the wind.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[MattB]

After bowhunting in various places for ~25 years, I've come to the conclusion that the wind's affect on my aim is a much bigger factor than what it does to my arrow post-release. My sense is guys overthink it.

Similar to calling the process of gluing inserts and fletchings to an arrow shaft a “build”. Houses, cars and even motors are built. Arrows and sandwiches aren’t.

 

[Lowg08]

Fl

I listened to a podcast discussing wind drift and their finding was the vane/feather profile had the largest impact on drift. I'll have to see if I can find the episode.

This is correct. arrow diameter can also be an effecting piece of the puzzle. For hunting I’m shooting a Easton sonic 6.0. 5mm with low profile four fletch. Depending on the helical or offset or vane size. It can be a parachute effect on your arrows therefore allowing wind to effect the flight path. Until I started slip hunting on balds I never thought much of it.

 

[Super 91]

After bowhunting in various places for ~25 years, I've come to the conclusion that the wind's affect on my aim is a much bigger factor than what it does to my arrow post-release. My sense is guys overthink it.

Similar to calling the process of gluing inserts and fletchings to an arrow shaft a “build”. Houses, cars and even motors are built. Arrows and sandwiches aren’t.

I don't know about that. I can make a dozen sandwiches in like 10 minutes from start to putting away the ingredients, I know as I have 5 kids with friends. It takes me 4-5 hours to properly build a perfect set of arrows. From weighing the components, to matching those weights with the cut arrows, to squaring both ends. Then low temp hot melt to be able to get all the runout out of the insert so the head will spin perfectly true. Then gluing the fletchings on as precisely as possible. I also use a RAM tool to check the weakest point on the shaft, then nock tune each shaft until I get a bullet hole, then fletch to that mark. Then match broadhead weight wise to each shaft so I can keep them as close to the same weight as possible. Is all this overkill? Maybe, but to me it gives me the utmost confidence in my arrows.

To the OP, I say stick with what works for you. I prefer to arrows I have built so far. One is GT Kinteitcs 200's with a stainless insert which will weigh between 575 and 600 depending on which head I go with, then I build a new arrow I'm testing right now, a Victory RIP HV in 250 spine with 18% FOC that weighs around 550 with a 125 grain head. I prefer a 2.7" vane with max helical 3 fletch and so far these heavy arrows drift much less than any of my lighter, faster builds at 40 yards and beyond.

 

[MattB]

I don't know about that. I can make a dozen sandwiches in like 10 minutes from start to putting away the ingredients, I know as I have 5 kids with friends. It takes me 4-5 hours to properly build a perfect set of arrows. From weighing the components, to matching those weights with the cut arrows, to squaring both ends. Then low temp hot melt to be able to get all the runout out of the insert so the head will spin perfectly true. Then gluing the fletchings on as precisely as possible. I also use a RAM tool to check the weakest point on the shaft, then nock tune each shaft until I get a bullet hole, then fletch to that mark. Then match broadhead weight wise to each shaft so I can keep them as close to the same weight as possible. Is all this overkill? Maybe, but to me it gives me the utmost confidence in my arrows.

You may have inadvertently skipped over the parts of the process for which you use the mill, lathe, and drill press.

From where I sit, extending the process of gluing together a bunch of components you bought on Amazon from ~45 minutes to 4-5 hours doesn't cause it to transcend from "making" or "assembling" arrows to "an arrow build". But if that is how you want to refer to it in the broader context of developing your tactical bow system, who am I to judge?

 

[justin davis]

4mm arrows and some FOC make a big difference in the wind in my experience

 

[Billy Goat]

Smaller diameter arrows are also what are used by all of the 3d shooters because of wind. The length and width of that shaft creates a lot of surface area to be blown by the wind.they can shoot the big 27 x cutters and don't, because of wind. Then they have low profile vanes and usually decent point weight. But not a lot compared to what a lot of guys here want.

I would not shoot 590 out west, and I wouldn't worry about wind. Most people can't judged it well enough to know.

I think you would be better off shooting a 5mm arrow in the high 450-500 range. A moderately low profile vane and decent overall point weight.

Guys are making arrow building super complicated. It really isn't. You don't ne3d super high FOC or super heavy arrows. Concentrate more on form, practice, practice practiceand have a good broadhead and a well tuned bow. All are more important than the wind.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

There's about nobody shooting for money in 3d using small diameter.

Maybe shooting this TAC stuff where it's all for fun, but virtually all the pros in the shootoffs yesterday had 23's. Danny Evans doesn't, but it has nothing to do with wind, it's cause they carry better from 40-50 yards causing less drop.

 

[5MilesBack]

You may have inadvertently skipped over the parts of the process for which you use the mill, lathe, and drill press.

So all those "homebuilders" are really just assembling homes since they didn't mill, lathe, or drill press every piece. Even the engine builders are just "assembling" unless they started with all bar stock and milled out every piece themselves.

As for wind drift........the biggest impact I've experienced was from the BH on the end of the arrow. Fixed blade heads plane way off more than small streamlined mechanical heads in the wind.

Several years ago I was shooting in a strong crosswind where I myself was shielded from the wind. I shot FP tipped arrows at 80 yards and aimed at the far right edge of the bale with my 500gr arrows starting out at 285fps. I was shocked when all three arrows were all almost exactly only 2" left of the right edge of the bale. Those arrows had 2" QS Speed Hunter vanes. But throw on a fixed blade BH, and they were 18" left of the right edge. That's when I started putting some mechanical heads in my quiver as well.

 

[4rcgoat]

The general equation for displacement of a moving body is: D = V × T + 0.5 × A × T²

D = displacement​

V = initial velocity in direction of displacement​

A = acceleration in direction of displacement​

T = time elapsed​

Acceleration due to crosswind is equivalent to the drag force exerted on the arrow by the wind (F) divided by the arrow's mass (M): A = F/M

Time of flight is the distance traveled from bow to target (X) divided by the arrow's average speed (S): T = X/S

So if D is wind drift:
D = V × (X/S) + 0.5 × (F/M) × (X/S)²

V in this case is 0 because at the moment of launch the arrow is moving toward the target only, not in the direction of the wind, so:
D = 0.5 × F × X² / (M × S²)

For two arrows "a" and "b" with the same profile (i.e., same head/point, shaft length/diameter, fletching configuration) shot at the same distance in the same wind conditions F and X are equal, so the ratio of their wind drifts is: D,a / D,b = (M × S²),b / (M × S²),a

Phrased another way: the arrow with the larger product of weight (M) and average speed squared (S²) will drift less, all other factors equal. However, this doesn't tell us definitively if a heavier or lighter arrow will drift more because arrow weight and speed are inversely related. Using the empirical data below (from a THP/RF video posted a while back) and assuming linear deceleration from 0 to 60 yds, the M × S² values suggest that heavier arrows should drift less in the wind (all else equal).
View attachment 422988

IMO fletching choice is likely to have more impact on wind drift than arrow weight. More vanes and longer/taller vanes increase the sideways force exerted by the wind on the arrow.