Arrow build help

[chili370]

Context: 29-29.25” carbon to carbon. Do-it-all western arrow.

Been looking at moving to HLRs, but victory’s website leads me to 300 spine, ie: 8.1 gpi, and I can’t get the weight/ FOC to be where I’d like when playing on podium archers calculator.

It’s either lighter than I’d like at or below 450 with reasonable FOC 12-16, or the weight I’d prefer 475-490ish with FOCs between 16-20 depending on what I put in and on it. The latter FOC estimates seem ripe to create a nose diver.

My question is, is this just simply not the right arrow for my wants or is there a creative way to get weight up and still have reasonable FOC?

(I’ve had RIP TKOs, Spartans, & Apollos over the years and just wanting to try something new because of X, Y, or Z experiences with the aforementioned)

 

[dtrkyman]

It will not make a nose diver just due to FOC. Play with wrap, vanes and nock for changes to foc and weight as well as point, insert sleeve weight.

450 with 13-15 foc is realistic with that light shaft and pretty close to ideal for me anyway!

If you played with a heavier vane or 4 fletch 460 grns and 12 13 foc would play.

I shoot 470 grains with 15ish% foc and 270 fps and they surely do not nose dive, have 175 up front but am able to shoot 350 spine and a shorter heavier gpi arrow.

Broadheads are spot on to 80 yards, fixed heads start hitting a little low after that.

 

[fatlander]

I don’t ever calculate FOC, or even consider it when building arrows. I shoot whatever total arrow weight will get me somewhere around 285fps out of the bow I’m building arrows for.

My whitetail bow is shooting a 485 grain arrow around 280 and my western bow is shooting a 520 grain arrow around 290. I’d confidently shoot anything in North America with either bow.


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[alexnelon]

The entire point of HLRs is to be lightweight so if you’re wanting a 500+ grain arrow you might just need to pick something else.

That said, FoC doesn’t matter at all unless your arrows are coming out sideways. 25% FoC is whatever but if you put 200+ grains on the front you’ll probably need to go to 250 spine anyway

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I’m not a high-FOC advocate by any means, but “nose diving” is a non-concern and not a legitimate reason to avoid building a high-FOC arrow. My advice is to build for the TAW you want and let FOC fall where it may.

That said, your shaft choice is at odds with your goal of a 475+ gr arrow with sub-16% FOC. Victory HLR is a low gpi shaft, which will necessitate 200+ gr on the front to achieve your TAW goal (unless you add a significant amount of extra weight on the rear). 200+ gr on the front will drive FOC into the upper teens and possibly drive you to a 250 spine shaft (depending on your draw weight, which was not stated). If you truly want to achieve your stated TAW and FOC goals, choose a higher gpi shaft.

 

[chili370]

It will not make a nose diver just due to FOC. Play with wrap, vanes and nock for changes to foc and weight as well as point, insert sleeve weight.

450 with 13-15 foc is realistic with that light shaft and pretty close to ideal for me anyway!

If you played with a heavier vane or 4 fletch 460 grns and 12 13 foc would play.

I shoot 470 grains with 15ish% foc and 270 fps and they surely do not nose dive, have 175 up front but am able to shoot 350 spine and a shorter heavier gpi arrow.

Broadheads are spot on to 80 yards, fixed heads start hitting a little low after that.

The 4 fletch with a wrap and 175 up front (125/50) gets me around 460 gn and 15ish %.
I think this will be the move unless I convince myself of a different arrow altogether

—70# draw on a Core SS (337fps) for those who will come across this thread later, as I can’t edit OP—


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[roosiebull]

Context: 29-29.25” carbon to carbon. Do-it-all western arrow.

Been looking at moving to HLRs, but victory’s website leads me to 300 spine, ie: 8.1 gpi, and I can’t get the weight/ FOC to be where I’d like when playing on podium archers calculator.

It’s either lighter than I’d like at or below 450 with reasonable FOC 12-16, or the weight I’d prefer 475-490ish with FOCs between 16-20 depending on what I put in and on it. The latter FOC estimates seem ripe to create a nose diver.

My question is, is this just simply not the right arrow for my wants or is there a creative way to get weight up and still have reasonable FOC?

(I’ve had RIP TKOs, Spartans, & Apollos over the years and just wanting to try something new because of X, Y, or Z experiences with the aforementioned)

You are overthinking it, I promise. 16-20% will not nose dive, just make sure you don’t put so much weight up front and get underspined

 

[peterk123]

I'm going with over thinking as well. Never ever worried about foc. 425 grain arrow will get the job done as long as you do your part. I think anything in the 425 to 475 range is the sweet spot.

 

[chili370]

I'm going with over thinking as well. Never ever worried about foc. 425 grain arrow will get the job done as long as you do your part. I think anything in the 425 to 475 range is the sweet spot.

I don’t know what happened to me when I was young but I’ll overthink a damn flip flop purchase if the moon is right.

 

[Eastonsgrandpa]

My recommendation is to spine up one. Always. Your arrow will come out straighter and recover faster. I run the HLR and went with a 250 spine even though the calculator says 300. They are absolute darts. Plus you will get 8.7 GPI

 

[Idaboy]

Can't you just put a weighted insert of you need to get weight up?

 

[5MilesBack]

(I’ve had RIP TKOs, Spartans, & Apollos over the years and just wanting to try something new because of X, Y, or Z experiences with the aforementioned)

I don't know what X, Y, or Z experiences are, but the RIP TKO's should fall right into what you're looking for. I've shot a lot of different arrows, and my RIP TKO Elite 250's are right near the top of the heep in regards to overall performance. I can't remember exactly what the FOC is on mine........30" ctc and 500gr, but I also have a 32.5" draw.

 

[Muleyczy]

I don’t ever calculate FOC, or even consider it when building arrows. I shoot whatever total arrow weight will get me somewhere around 285fps out of the bow I’m building arrows for.

My whitetail bow is shooting a 485 grain arrow around 280 and my western bow is shooting a 520 grain arrow around 290. I’d confidently shoot anything in North America with either bow.


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What’s your setup to get a 520 to go around 290 fps?

 

[fatlander]

What’s your setup to get a 520 to go around 290 fps?

Ventum 33, 29”, 82#

The hbx era of cams are smoking fast at the top end of the number 2 mod, they usually shake out about 340 ibo in that module spot


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[Muleyczy]

Ventum 33, 29”, 82#

The hbx era of cams are smoking fast at the top end of the number 2 mod, they usually shake out about 340 ibo in that module spot


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That’s smokin

 

[fatlander]

That’s smokin

It is. It’s faster at 29” than 29.5” due to the way Hoyt designed the different modules. At 80% let off, she scoots. I’m going to hate to replace it one day. I’ve killed 26 animals with it since I’ve had it.


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[mfolch]

I have almost exactly the arrow you’re thinking of: hlr 300 spine, 29-29.9 in ctc, 50gn Easton hit insert, 25gn iron will collar, 125 gn irons will single bevel, 4 fletch aae max stealth, 8gn nock: 470-489gn taw. This is the most forgiving arrow I’ve ever used. FOC is around 17%. Flies amazingly well out to 90 yards. Blew through a white tail at 50 yards and sank 6 inches into a downed log 20 yards behind from my 63lbs, 30.5in dl hoyt rx9u.

 

[chili370]

I have almost exactly the arrow you’re thinking of: hlr 300 spine, 29-29.9 in ctc, 50gn Easton hit insert, 25gn iron will collar, 125 gn irons will single bevel, 4 fletch aae max stealth, 8gn nock: 470-489gn taw. This is the most forgiving arrow I’ve ever used. FOC is around 17%. Flies amazingly well out to 90 yards. Blew through a white tail at 50 yards and sank 6 inches into a downed log 20 yards behind from my 63lbs, 30.5in dl hoyt rx9u.

This is the exact reply I needed to get out of my own head and quit fiddlefucking around on the goggle machine. Greatly appreciated!

My only question is why the hit and collar over what it comes with? Just durability?

 

[mfolch]

I tried the factory inserts and never loved them. They seem to get stuck on bag targets and the collar section doesn’t cover enough of the shaft in my opinion. I had a hard time getting them not to come loose with hot and cold melt. They stay on with super glue or victory black fusion but that creates other problems. I index my broadheads, and doing so is super easy with a collar and impossible with super glued inserts and half-out. Just slide off the collar, grind the arrow a few turns on a squaring tool until the blades are perfectly aligned.

The other good thing about a collar is that it’s optional—you can always try without a collar—and there are many different weights available: podium (7gn), Easton (21), IW (15, 25), ethics (40) and a few others I haven’t tried, which means you can experiment with different foc and taw, see what flies best/is most forgiving with your broadheads. Adding a lighted nock might throw off foc with one collar but can be balanced with a heavier one, etc. I spent the summer trying just about every combination and settled on my setup because they were consistently the most accurate for me and forgiving. The same arrow and vanes with lighter podium collars and 100gn broadheads instead of 125gn was noticeably faster but less forgiving of an imperfect break. Anyway, long story short, I wanted the most forgiving arrow I could for anything from whitetail to elk, and I haven’t been able to find anything better for me.