Arrow Build Help - Different Program Readings

[BKhunter]

Hey All,

I'm building a new arrow for my new bow. And when running the specs through Archers Advantage and qSpine app, I am getting different outputs. Archers advantage is telling me it is on the weak side while qSpine is telling me it is on the stuff side. I do like my arrows a little on the stiff side in the event I want to add weight upfront. Can you guys let me know your thoughts or what program I should trust and if you would do different? with the arrow setup? Bow and arrow specs below. Thanks in advance for any input!

Bow Specs:

Matthews V3 31 ATA
85% letoff
70# Draw weight
27.5 Draw length

Arrow

Black Eagle Rampage 300 spine (.001)
28 inch arrow
AAE hunter Max Vanes (3 fletch)
50 grain black eagle half out insert
125 point
4 grain Arrow wrap

 

[Mighty Mouse]

300 spine seems about right. You'll have some room to trim the arrow down if it does act weak, but I think you'll be fine at the specs you listed.

 

[Rob5589]

That spec combo looks good. Like MM stated, if it tunes weak, you should be able to lop an inch or so to stiffen it up. I'd bet it shoots well though.

 

[BKhunter]

Thanks both! I'm just getting into building my own arrows and tuning on my own. Any tips on how I can identify a weak arrow and some quick tips to correct it?

 

[406unltd]

Thanks both! I'm just getting into building my own arrows and tuning on my own. Any tips on how I can identify a weak arrow and some quick tips to correct it?

If speed isn’t over 285ish and you can’t get a fixed head to fly then take turns out of your limbs, or add weight to the rear of shaft, or take weight off the front, or cut the shaft down. If any of those things help it’s weak.

 

[5MilesBack]

There's no way that's weak at only 27.5" draw. I wouldn't expect 340's to be weak either.

 

[Zac]

I'd ditch that shit half out as well. Get yourself a hidden insert.

 

[CB4]

At 70lbs and that draw length you should be just fine with a 300 spine. I have a 75lb v3 31 at 28.5". I cut my Rampages at 28.25" but have 200 total grains up front so I ran a 250 spine.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Thanks both! I'm just getting into building my own arrows and tuning on my own. Any tips on how I can identify a weak arrow and some quick tips to correct it?

I'm of the opinion that arrow spine isn't that critical with a compound bow. I've been able to get arrows both significantly weaker and stiffer than what the charts/software say is optimal to tune just fine. If you've exhausted all other means of adjustment and are still having a problem, try what @406unltd recommended: reduce draw weight, reduce point weight, or trim the arrow. If any of those three improve the tune, then weak spine may actually be the root cause.

I've found several sources claiming that for a right-handed shooter, weak spine causes a nock left paper tear (also manifests as bareshafts hitting right of fletched shafts and broadheads hitting right of field points). I think that advice is sound for shooting a recurve with fingers but isn't really relevant to shooting a compound with a mechanical release.

 

[BKhunter]

At 70lbs and that draw length you should be just fine with a 300 spine. I have a 75lb v3 31 at 28.5". I cut my Rampages at 28.25" but have 200 total grains up front so I ran a 250 spine.

So in this scenario I'd be around 175 upfront with the tip and insert but I have weights I could possible add. Do you think this would negatively impact the spine if I added a heavier insert?

 

[CB4]

So in this scenario I'd be around 175 upfront with the tip and insert but I have weights I could possible add. Do you think this would negatively impact the spine if I added a heavier insert?

adding any weight to the front will weaken the spine. However with a 27" draw length depending on which rest you use I imagine you could cut your arrows down to about 26.5". The shorter arrow will mean an overall stiffer spine and will allow you to use the same arrow without having to change spines. However with the set up you have laid out in original post you should be able to get that to tune no problem. I shot a 300 spine at 70 pounds and 28.5" arrow for the last 10 years before buying my v3 this year.

 

[JBivens]

I shoot your same dimensions, but with a Hoyt. Look at Valkyrie system. They have the BE shafts, (X Impacts) but run substantially more weight up front. I shoot at a 27.5 draw and run a 26.75 spine length and a 300 spine shoots extremely consistent. I think you will be fine with the spine you suggested, and I think you could add quite a bit of weight via an insert and still stay within your accuracy tolerances.

 

[John.45]

I'd ditch that shit half out as well. Get yourself a hidden insert.

I am relatively new to arrow building. Is strength the main reason to go away from the 1/2 out insert or are there other reasons?

I'd ditch that shit half out as well. Get yourself a hidden insert.

 

[Billy Goat]

I am relatively new to arrow building. Is strength the main reason to go away from the 1/2 out insert or are there other reasons?

They bend, especially the aluminum ones.

They can be a pia to pull from some targets as well, mainly bags.

 

[BKhunter]

adding any weight to the front will weaken the spine. However with a 27" draw length depending on which rest you use I imagine you could cut your arrows down to about 26.5". The shorter arrow will mean an overall stiffer spine and will allow you to use the same arrow without having to change spines. However with the set up you have laid out in original post you should be able to get that to tune no problem. I shot a 300 spine at 70 pounds and 28.5" arrow for the last 10 years before buying my v3 this year.

What arrow set up are you shooting since you bought the V3?

 

[BKhunter]

They bend, especially the aluminum ones.

They can be a pia to pull from some targets as well, mainly bags.

Yea this hardware came with the arrows when I bought them so was thinking giving them a try, I know they need to get glued in so I'm assuming if I don't like them i'm kind of stuck with them and get swap them out correct?

 

[Billy Goat]

Yea this hardware came with the arrows when I bought them so was thinking giving them a try, I know they need to get glued in so I'm assuming if I don't like them i'm kind of stuck with them and get swap them out correct?

I used hot melt on BE rampages with the halfouts. Lost a few. That allows you to remove them later if you want, and you can go back and permanently glue them later. I wanted to be able to cut my shafts shorter if I needed to. Ended up just not using them very much, got rid of the bow they were setup on and haven't used them since.
The SS BE halfouts aren't too bad. They are pretty durable for a half out, but still not ideal in my opinion. But I freely admit I just don't care for the smaller diameter shafts.

 

[Zac]

Yea this hardware came with the arrows when I bought them so was thinking giving them a try, I know they need to get glued in so I'm assuming if I don't like them i'm kind of stuck with them and get swap them out correct?

You can either use .204 hidden inserts from Easton or Ironwill. Easton is 16-75 grains. IWgoes up to 100 I think. You can also choose a 10, or 25 grain collar for the IW.

 

[CB4]

What arrow set up are you shooting since you bought the V3?

My v3 is 75lbs and 28.5" draw.

Arrows are BE Rampages 250 spine. Cut to 28.25". 200 grains up front total. Also switch the nocks to Gold Tip GTO nocks with GT Accu Bushings. Overall grains at 545-555 depending on fletching's. Speed is right at 275fps.