Arken EPL-4 4-16x44mm Q&A

[Formidilosus]

Based on that video it kind of is the equivalent of the rifle just laying on the back seat, the rifle is getting shaken and bumped around a bit but hardly being abused. Which again I find incredible how little it takes to shift the zero on some of these scopes.

Correct.

 

[ElPollo]

Correct.

I’ve had significant (3-4”) zero loss on several scopes from dirt roads in the desert and washboards after just a couple of days. The roads aren’t extreme offroad stuff. Frankly the more extreme roads are the times you drive slower, but a 100 miles of washboards and dirt is another thing altogether. I spend a lot of time with a rifle in my truck for predators while bird hunting in the desert. The vibration can eat a lot of scopes.

 

[Reburn]

Based on that video it kind of is the equivalent of the rifle just laying on the back seat, the rifle is getting shaken and bumped around a bit but hardly being abused. Which again I find incredible how little it takes to shift the zero on some of these scopes.

I'm trying to think of ways I can easily replicate this test myself with the scopes I own.

For future referrence "road testing" described on posts 6 and 7 and video at 18.

Drop them from 36" 3 times on top a shooting mat. One on each side and one on the top. If its gonna move this will cause it to move. Or if it has a gold ring or a vortex dont bother just know it will move.

 

[Beetroot]

Drop them from 36" 3 times on top a shooting mat. One on each side and one on the top. If its gonna move this will cause it to move. Or if it has a gold ring or a vortex dont bother just know it will move.

I appreciate drop tests are easy to do.

Its this "road test" that is the most surprising to me, and the hardest to replicate without driving down forestry roads daily.

 

[Formidilosus]

Its this "road test" that is the most surprising to me,

It really shouldn’t be if you think critically about it. Everyone “knows” that the first thing you just do after traveling anywhere is to check zero. Why is that? Why is that a truism no matter where you go or who you are hunting with? Because- scopes lose zero, a lot.

 

[Beetroot]

It really shouldn’t be if you think critically about it. Everyone “knows” that the first thing you just do after traveling anywhere is to check zero. Why is that? Why is that a truism no matter where you go or who you are hunting with? Because- scopes lose zero, a lot.

Maybe I don't hang around with enough funds, but I can’t say I've ever thought about re-checking zero after traveling.

Admittedly since I've been doing competitive shooting for a good 6 years now I tend to not bother conversing with fudds anymore as it does my head in.

 

[Formidilosus]

Maybe I don't hang around with enough funds, but I can’t say I've ever thought about re-checking zero after traveling.

Admittedly since I've been doing competitive shooting for a good 6 years now I tend to not bother conversing with fudds anymore as it does my head in.

Then you are sheltered. Read any hunting book, any story, listen to any podcast, watch any video and checking zero is front and center before hunting. Has been for 60-70 years.

 

[Beetroot]

Then you are sheltered. Read any hunting book, any story, listen to any podcast, watch any video and checking zero is front and center before hunting. Has been for 60-70 years.

Pretty much the only online forum I frequent these days is Snipershide, not really sure that counts as sheltered or not...

Anyway, if I end up devising a test and doing so I'll be sure to report back.

 

[Reburn]

I appreciate drop tests are easy to do.

Its this "road test" that is the most surprising to me, and the hardest to replicate without driving down forestry roads daily.

You missed the point. I know there is alot of reading here and your catching up.
Point is as a general rule no scope that passes the 36" drops will lose zero from riding around.
So instead of trying to replicate forest service roads just drop the darn thing and know if its good or not.
loss of zero could be other things then the scope as well. The point is to check you system as a whole.

 

[Beetroot]

You missed the point. I know there is alot of reading here and your catching up.
Point is as a general rule no scope that passes the 36" drops will lose zero from riding around.
So instead of trying to replicate forest service roads just drop the darn thing and know if its good or not.
loss of zero could be other things then the scope as well. The point is to check you system as a whole.

I didn't miss that point, its just I find the drop tests entirely believable but the loss of zero from a mere road trip not so much.

In theory doing a long term road trip with my rifles/scopes should be fairly easy to conduct. It'd also be less easy to write off from skeptics.

It's easy for folks (like the ones on Snipershide) to come up with half a dozen reasons for these drop tests to be invalid.
But the rifle sitting in the back of your car/truck is a bit harder to dismiss.

Anyway, I was on the fence about whether these drop tests were actually useful or somewhat hyperbolic.
But the loss of zero just from a road trip is pretty much 100% relevant to every one who shoots.

 

[Reburn]

I didn't miss that point, its just I find the drop tests entirely believable but the loss of zero from a mere road trip not so much.

In theory doing a long term road trip with my rifles/scopes should be fairly easy to conduct. It'd also be less easy to write off from skeptics.

It's easy for folks (like the ones on Snipershide) to come up with half a dozen reasons for these drop tests to be invalid.
But the rifle sitting in the back of your car/truck is a bit harder to dismiss.

Anyway, I was on the fence about whether these drop tests were actually useful or somewhat hyperbolic.
But the loss of zero just from a road trip is pretty much 100% relevant to every one who shoots.

Sorry to say bud you did miss it. Go back and read all the test and see how many scopes didnt pass the drop test and lost zero from riding around as well.

I don't worry about what other people think anymore. The ones that claim their vortex is perfect and has never shifted always admittidly never had dropped their gun to check and they always recheck zero before hunting or shooting comps.........

If you have to re zero your gun before you use it isnt that the definition of losing zero? If it didnt get lost why would it need to be re zeroed.

There is a reason that form uses the particular gun he uses to test scopes and there is a reason he proofs a 30 round group with that batch of ammo with a proof scope before these tests are conducted. And then shoots a 10 round group with the test scope to establish a true zero before any testing.

This is most shooters,
1. have never shot a 30 round group with their gun
2. have never shot a 10 round group with their gun
3. dont have a 100 yard zero. they have 1.5 or 1" high at 100. this is not a zero.
4. since they dont have a zero they wouldnt be able to determine if the scope has lost a click or 2 since they didnt have a true zero anyways.

 

[Beetroot]

Sorry to say bud you did miss it. Go back and read all the test and see how many scopes didnt pass the drop test and lost zero from riding around as well.

I don't worry about what other people think anymore. The ones that claim their vortex is perfect and has never shifted always admittidly never had dropped their gun to check and they always recheck zero before hunting or shooting comps.........

If you have to re zero your gun before you use it isnt that the definition of losing zero? If it didnt get lost why would it need to be re zeroed.

There is a reason that form uses the particular gun he uses to test scopes and there is a reason he proofs a 30 round group with that batch of ammo with a proof scope before these tests are conducted. And then shoots a 10 round group with the test scope to establish a true zero before any testing.

This is most shooters,
1. have never shot a 30 round group with their gun
2. have never shot a 10 round group with their gun
3. dont have a 100 yard zero. they have 1.5 or 1" high at 100. this is not a zero.
4. since they dont have a zero they wouldnt be able to determine if the scope has lost a click or 2 since they didnt have a true zero anyways.

I understand what you/these drop tests are saying.
I think you are missing the point I’m trying to make.

No point derailing this thread any further though.

 

[freddyG]

I understand what you/these drop tests are saying.
I think you are missing the point I’m trying to make.

No point derailing this thread any further though.

The problem with driving tests is knowing how rough a road, or how far to drive? The drop test speeds it all up. If it fails the drop test, it ain’t worth owning/using.

 

[Formidilosus]

The problem with driving tests is knowing how rough a road, or how far to drive? The drop test speeds it all up. If it fails the drop test, it ain’t worth owning/using.

Yes.

The best option would be to get 10-20 of each scope make/model, use them hard (actual hard) for 20-30 thousand rounds on each and see what happens. Being that is unrealistic for most uses, we do what we can. The fact that so far in hundreds of scopes there is a very strong correlation to the initial eval and longer term function, it’s not bad.

 

[Dobermann]

I understand what you/these drop tests are saying.
I think you are missing the point I’m trying to make.

No point derailing this thread any further though.

Beetroot: don't be perturbed if people see your join date and unintentionally treat you as the 'new guy' ... you're among friends here.

I, too, don't understand the dislike/distrust by some sections of the Hide for these tests - although if you read the couple of threads there that cover them, it's mostly really only three or four dominant voices ... some of whom are heavily invested in optics that commonly fail testing. Others there haven't proposed alternative tests.

The fact that Frank pulled his scope test results (which showed some catastrophic failures by Leupold, and some pretty variable results from some other prominent brands) shows that a lot gets bound up in all this ...

 

[andrew.burkhart1]

It’s certainly isn’t the worst performer.

My view is it either works or it doesn’t- price doesn’t really enter the equation as there has been no correlation between price and proper function.

Is there any sub $500 scopes that pass without failures? Would this scope be usable for someone that would rather spend money on hunting opportunities then scopes.


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[Montana'eer]

Is there any sub $500 scopes that pass without failures? Would this scope be usable for someone that would rather spend money on hunting opportunities then scopes.


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SWFA fixed scopes are hella tough and certainly usable.

Shop All - SWFA SS - Page 2 - SWFA

swfa.com

 

[nobody]

Is there any sub $500 scopes that pass without failures? Would this scope be usable for someone that would rather spend money on hunting opportunities then scopes.


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What @Montana'eer said. Fixed power SWFA’s. I have 4 of them

 

[Blacktail247]

after watching the video of the rifle and scope riding in the pickup it seems like pretty normal driving conditions while hunting. The recoil of the rifle seems more severe than the truck ride. What am I missing here? Is this really not the case?

I do like to see these test and have also had plenty of zero shifts but have always figured it was just changing conditions that caused it.

 

[Kurts86]

after watching the video of the rifle and scope riding in the pickup it seems like pretty normal driving conditions while hunting. The recoil of the rifle seems more severe than the truck ride. What am I missing here? Is this really not the case?

I do like to see these test and have also had plenty of zero shifts but have always figured it was just changing conditions that caused it.

Because scopes are not Isotropic mechanisms. The forces are acting in different axis and the durability varies greatly between each axis.

If recoil runs along the X-axis, lots of vibration and impacts act upon the Y and Z Axis (Turrets, parallax).

Think about a Coke can. You can stand on it in the Z axis but you can crush it from the X-Y with your pinky.