Archers Advantage Vs. Pinwheel App

[BKhunter]

Hey All,

I am just getting started on building my own arrows and am using both the pinwheel app and archers advantage. Archers advantage is telling me I very under spinned while pinwheel is telling me I am optimal. Has anyone used these two applications before side by side? Which one do you trust more? I am looking at bow specs and TAW on both to ensure it is matching and it is?

BK

 

[big44a4]

Hey All,

I am just getting started on building my own arrows and am using both the pinwheel app and archers advantage. Archers advantage is telling me I very under spinned while pinwheel is telling me I am optimal. Has anyone used these two applications before side by side? Which one do you trust more? I am looking at bow specs and TAW on both to ensure it is matching and it is?

BK

Post bow specs and arrow information


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[BKhunter]

Brace height 6.5
ATA 33.25
Draw length 27.75
Draw 70#
80% let off

Arrow Black Eagle Deep Impact 300 spine 28.25 inches OD 0.248 GPI 11
Black Eagle Focus inserts 80 grains
125 grain point
AAE Max hunter vane 7.5 grains per vane
4 inch wrap 5 grains

 

[NrthFrk16]

Good question. Can I piggy back?

I am using both and get similar results for certain arrows and different results for others even though the arrow speed and FOC % are very similar. It seems that Archers Advantage tends to error on the stiff side.

I am shooting a Bowtech SR6, 28.5” dl at 60#s.

For Victory VAPs, at 28.5” with 100 gr pts and 50 gr inserts/collar, AA says Marginally Stiff it Pinwheel says Optimal. Outputs attached.

 

[NrthFrk16]

Another example, this is specific too what I am shooting, you can see the differences in stiffness. Also appears that AA doesn’t always update the FPS.

 

[Reburn]

I perfer ontarget2 / pinwheel. I have both but, I don't like that archers advantage likes to argue with me when i try and update grain weights on shafts and fletchings. Especially when I'm looking at a calibrated grain scale.

 

[big44a4]

Brace height 6.5
ATA 33.25
Draw length 27.75
Draw 70#
80% let off

Arrow Black Eagle Deep Impact 300 spine 28.25 inches OD 0.248 GPI 11
Black Eagle Focus inserts 80 grains
125 grain point
AAE Max hunter vane 7.5 grains per vane
4 inch wrap 5 grains

Arrow spine looks fine to me. I’ve gotten 300 spine to tune fine out of an 80# bow at 29.5” draw and 340 IBO. But only way to know is to shoot it. Programs are a starting point.


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[BKhunter]

Would you recommend I start out with a 28.5 inch bare shaft and shoot and once that looks good through paper take fletch them up? I'm just getting into the process of building my own arrows and super tuning my bow so looking for the best process to work through.

 

[Zac]

Yeah you can turn nocks on your bare shafts if you want. It's going to be tough to get your cock vane perfectly placed on the top of your shaft based on which jig your using. Also once you add fletchings and a wrap your tune is going to change slightly. You are shooting an extremely consistent shaft. I would just fletch them up and then nock tune with the fletched shaft. Tim has a really good paper tuning video.

 

[sneaky]

I've used both, are you inputting ALL the info on Archer's Advantage? Bow, exact draw weight, DL, everything on your string etc? If you're drawing 27.75 why are you shooting an arrow that sticks out in front of your riser? Broadhead clearance issue or just want the arrow that long? My compound arrows are quite a bit shorter than my DL because of how far back my drop away sits. Both of those programs are starting points, always err on the stiff side. You can make a stiff arrow shoot, but a weak arrow is trouble especially with broadheads.

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[BKhunter]

That arrow length was my starting point. I do plan on shortening the arrow. I had the bow set up by a pro shop which did a horrible job. This is why I want to do all of my own work from now on so I can make sure it is done right. This is my first go at it so it's been a learning process.

 

[Brendan]

I personally don't use any of the phone apps, because I want to be able to print cut charts and sight tapes easily.

I tried Archers Advantage at one point and didn't have good luck with it (Online version). Pretty sure they've migrated everything to online, so not sure how it works now or if they've improved things. Came across as less options / flexibility at the time.

Pinwheel / SFAX has been great for me once you figure it out. I use the Mac version, and have used the PC version in the past as well.

A couple hints for Pinwheel: Make sure your spine selector is "Hunting" - and watch what that does to your spine readout when you select between the three options. As above - using the published component weights doesn't always add up. it's a good starting point but I'm usually tweaking everything to get it to match up exactly. Not needed for a starting point, but helpful to fine tune.

 

[sneaky]

I personally don't use any of the phone apps, because I want to be able to print cut charts and sight tapes easily.

I tried Archers Advantage at one point and didn't have good luck with it (Online version). Pretty sure they've migrated everything to online, so not sure how it works now or if they've improved things. Came across as less options / flexibility at the time.

Pinwheel / SFAX has been great for me once you figure it out. I use the Mac version, and have used the PC version in the past as well.

A couple hints for Pinwheel: Make sure your spine selector is "Hunting" - and watch what that does to your spine readout when you select between the three options. As above - using the published component weights doesn't always add up. it's a good starting point but I'm usually tweaking everything to get it to match up exactly. Not needed for a starting point, but helpful to fine tune.

I've always gotten better sight tapes out of AA over OT. Either one you use you need to have someone who knows how to read a tape measure and gets you good arrow to peep height measurements at full draw, and peep to sight pin at full draw to really set the right parameters. A mis measurement on either of those can really skew the results.

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[Reburn]

A couple hints for Pinwheel: Make sure your spine selector is "Hunting" - and watch what that does to your spine readout when you select between the three options.

Ok so I had it set to target & hunting. Setting it to hunting showed a weaker spine reaction and setting it to target showed a stiffer spine reaction.

Do you know why and what parameters it changes?

 

[Reburn]

@Brendan Never mind. I read the manual. So others don't have to dig

Manufacturers (MFG) categorize their shafts as "hunting" or "target". SFAX uses the MFG designation in the database to ID shafts. When you use the "Target" filter, only MFG classified target models are extracted from the database. The "Hunting" filter extracts shafts labeled for hunting. Selecting the "Target&Hunting" filter extracts all matching shafts regardless of classification. SFAX considers camo shafts with tight straightness tolerances as "Target&Hunting", so they will show up using any of the search filters. Camo shafts would be the prime example for a "hunting" shaft. Classifying shafts that have straightness tolerances worse than ~0.003 total runout are also considered "hunting". These "less straight" shafts are often inexpensive or "branded" for discount sales. It's also possible that there may be more static spine variation in these "less expensive" models. If you don't like the idea of using a "Target" or "Hunting" spine filter like the Easton charts, SFAX gives you the flexibility to use the "Target&Hunting" filter option that splits the difference between Target and Hunting. Should Target, Hunting or Target&Hunting not fit your needs or match your personal tuning experiences, you can always over-ride the program and tell it what "your best match" is with the "Synch" spinner value.

There are other practical reasons to shoot stiffer shafts for hunting, the main one being that slightly stiff arrows generally are easier to tune when used in conjunction with fixed blade broadheads (BH). The picture sequence below shows an exaggerated version of what happens as an arrow is launched.

 

[Brendan]

I've always gotten better sight tapes out of AA over OT. Either one you use you need to have someone who knows how to read a tape measure and gets you good arrow to peep height measurements at full draw, and peep to sight pin at full draw to really set the right parameters. A mis measurement on either of those can really skew the results.

I'm the other way around. Couldn't get AA to work for me (Although, it's been a while...), and all of my sight tapes using OT2/SFAX I can get dead on exact at every range if I spend the time. Does take some fiddling though depending on how exact I am shooting in my marks.

100% agree those measurements are critical. I do both in a draw board with a steel ruler. This is one of those scenarios where if you don't have a draw board - build a makeshift one to take the measurements, would only take a couple bucks in parts for a one time measurement.

 

[notradame]

OT2 has more inputs and so far for me has been spot on. The owner is also very receptive to emails and suggestions IMHO. I have both and find OT2 to be superior.

 

[1javelin]

Been looking at these apps to help build up a set for a new bow, for testing purposes, to see if I can get it nailed in pretty easily with minimum excess cost. I think I’m going to go with OT2 app, as I can Bluetooth to most printers now and print if needed. Thanks for the info above guys.

 

[Temujen]

Hoping someone can help me with a spine stiffness check -

Bow
Mathews V3 31
Draw Weight - 60#
DL - 29.25"

Proposed Arrow Setup

Easton 5mm Axis Sport - 340 spine
Cut to 28.5 Carbon to Carbon (or 28.75 possibly, for extra clearance on my arrow rest to avoid contact with that 1" Iron Will collar)

100 grain Tip
25 grain Iron Will Collar
25 grain Iron Will Insert

Vanetec Swift HD 2.25 - I think 4.5 grains x 3
4" Wrap - ~4 grains
X-Nock - 9 grains

How is the above looking for a 340 spine? Does that extra .25" of arrow make any difference?

What about a 50 grain Iron Will insert instead of just the 25, so that'd be 175 up front.

Much appreciated!

 

[bojangles808]

Hoping someone can help me with a spine stiffness check -

Bow
Mathews V3 31
Draw Weight - 60#
DL - 29.25"

Proposed Arrow Setup

Easton 5mm Axis Sport - 340 spine
Cut to 28.5 Carbon to Carbon (or 28.75 possibly, for extra clearance on my arrow rest to avoid contact with that 1" Iron Will collar)

100 grain Tip
25 grain Iron Will Collar
25 grain Iron Will Insert

Vanetec Swift HD 2.25 - I think 4.5 grains x 3
4" Wrap - ~4 grains
X-Nock - 9 grains

How is the above looking for a 340 spine? Does that extra .25" of arrow make any difference?

What about a 50 grain Iron Will insert instead of just the 25, so that'd be 175 up front.

Much appreciated!

not trying to be rude (welcome to the forum ) but you should just buy the pinwheel app and support them its cheap and well worth it it will save you a lot of $ in the long run on arrows