AR15 or AR10 - 6.5 Grendel vs 6 creed

[satchamo]

Soooo I’m waffling back and forth on the best caliber to run for a dedicated Coyote AR rig. I currently run 223 but it doesn’t quite have the ass I’m looking for…. This is going to be my dedicated thermal rig which I do not have lrf so I’m wanting the flattest option out to 300.

So I’ve come down the decision whether I try and stay in the AR 15 platform and run a 6.5 Grendel or if I graduate up to an AR10 in 6cm.

I’m not worried about hides and I can reload if needed. Right now 6 creed seems to have the best supply of ammo. So I’m thinking AR10 in 6 creed might be my best bet. I can’t seem to even find brass for 6.5 Grendel… but I’m a year out from next coyote season so the optimist in me thinks i could source ammo or components at some point.

So here is my pro con list:

6.5 Grendel:

Pros:
-much cheaper to build - already have a lower and a bunch of components
-smaller, lighter rig
-way more barrel options

Cons:
-ammo is non existent
-not as flat/fast as 6cm (I think?)

6 creed

Pros:
-more factory annoy available
-flatter/faster shooting

Cons:
-more expensive to build
-way less barrel choices
-big/heavier gun


What you you do? Ar10 in 6 creed or ar15 in 6.5 Grendel?

 

[sram9102]

Looked into the newish 6 ARC? That is where I would be looking for a larger than 223 ar platform.

 

[satchamo]

Looked into the newish 6 ARC? That is where I would be looking for a larger than 223 ar platform.

I’ve seen it tossed out a lot but never took a deep dive. I’ll look now!

 

[sram9102]

I’ve seen it tossed out a lot but never took a deep dive. I’ll look now!

Keeps you in the 15 platform with the sleek 6mm bullets. Not going to get 6 creed velocities but it checks alot of boxes.

 

[ALF]

I built a new upper in 6 ARC with a Ranier Arms 22" 7 twist barrel for thermal use.

I was hoping the 70 grain Ballistic Tips or Blitzkings would work, but I couldn't get them to shoot to my satisfaction. Next stop was 87 grain Bergers, and they are scary accurate at 3000, and give up little to smaller bullets in trajectory at night time ranges.

I also just put together another upper in 22 DTI, which is basically a 6.8 SPC necked down to 22 with a 30* shoulder. Shilen 20" 10 twist is a f'ing hammer, 52 Bergers or 53 Vmax at 3550. Season's about over so it'll have to wait till next fall to pop it's cherry.....

 

[wildwilderness]

It seems the 6 ARC (basically 6.5 Grendel necked down) is the way to go for versatility. That 22 DTI sounds like a winner for coyotes. The 6.5 would be better if hogs/deer were on the list for closer thermal shots.

 

[WCB]

A 55 or 53 grain .223 is flatter shooting and handles the wind to 300 yards better than a Grendel plus as you said ammo is not to be found very easily. 6 Crd beats them all pretty easily in wind drift and energy but out to 300 yards there is not much separation in drop maybe an inch?

How about a .224 Valkyrie? Really light (60gr) loads give you a bit better performance than .223. You can go up to 80+grains for a bunch more energy and way better wind deflection than your current .223. you will have about the same drop at 300yds.

 

[satchamo]

A 55 or 53 grain .223 is flatter shooting and handles the wind to 300 yards better than a Grendel plus as you said ammo is not to be found very easily. 6 Crd beats them all pretty easily in wind drift and energy but out to 300 yards there is not much separation in drop maybe an inch?

How about a .224 Valkyrie? Really light (60gr) loads give you a bit better performance than .223. You can go up to 80+grains for a bunch more energy and way better wind deflection than your current .223. you will have about the same drop at 300yds.

I'm not entirely sure why but the 224 has just not had any appeal to me.... but you make a good point. Would you run a 224 over a 6 creed tho? Better yet - what about it vs the 6 arc?

6 creed barrels seem to be hard to find...

 

[WCB]

I'm not entirely sure why but the 224 has just not had any appeal to me.... but you make a good point. Would you run a 224 over a 6 creed tho? Better yet - what about it vs the 6 arc?

6 creed barrels seem to be hard to find...

6 Arc vs .224 Valk out to 300. depending on load say a 105ARC vs 80.5 Valk or 90 Valk all BTHP/match offerings.

Energy edge goes to ARC by 150-200ftlbs @ 300. wind basically zero advantage compared to 90Valk (-0.2") about an inch to the 80.5gr

Drop to 300 with 100yd zero almost identical to an 80.5Valk (-0.2") and 2" advantage over 90grvalk
Drop to 300 with 200yd zero almost identical to 80.5 Valk(-0.2") and 1.2" advantage over 90gr Valk

the 6's vs .224 valkyrie...what would I do? I would go ARC or Valkyrie before 6creed. And probably the .224VLK for ammo options.

6 creed has more energy but who cares IMO on Coyotes the Valk is still around 1000ftlbs at 300. I have had zero issues with Coyotes out to and past 300 yards with 43gr-55gr .223 pills so take my energy thoughts for what you want. Valkyrie beats the 6 on wind. It does drop a bit more but distance IMO is mostly a known vs wind is harder to judge.

But throw in firearm/barrel availability accessories etc...I haven't looked into the ARC

 

[satchamo]

6 Arc vs .224 Valk out to 300. depending on load say a 105ARC vs 80.5 Valk or 90 Valk all BTHP/match offerings.

Energy edge goes to ARC by 150-200ftlbs @ 300. wind basically zero advantage compared to 90Valk (-0.2") about an inch to the 80.5gr

Drop to 300 with 100yd zero almost identical to an 80.5Valk (-0.2") and 2" advantage over 90grvalk
Drop to 300 with 200yd zero almost identical to 80.5 Valk(-0.2") and 1.2" advantage over 90gr Valk

the 6's vs .224 valkyrie...what would I do? I would go ARC or Valkyrie before 6creed. And probably the .224VLK for ammo options.

6 creed has more energy but who cares IMO on Coyotes the Valk is still around 1000ftlbs at 300. I have had zero issues with Coyotes out to and past 300 yards with 43gr-55gr .223 pills so take my energy thoughts for what you want. Valkyrie beats the 6 on wind. It does drop a bit more but distance IMO is mostly a known vs wind is harder to judge.

But throw in firearm/barrel availability accessories etc...I haven't looked into the ARC

Very good info- thanks for the help. Seriously considering 224 or 6 arc.

Do you think 224 will stick around? I’ve heard allot of folks claim it’s already dead.

 

[WCB]

Very good info- thanks for the help. Seriously considering 224 or 6 arc.

Do you think 224 will stick around? I’ve heard allot of folks claim it’s already dead.

And there are a lot of guys claiming the ammunition and component shortage is a government conspiracy with cooperation from the manufacturers to choke off the 2nd Amendment.

.224vlk is here to stay...It may not be the most popular cartridge out there but look at the numbers and tell me it doesn't fit in with the ones we have been discussing. Some of the same guys saying the .224 is dead are probably also recommending guys buy a 7Saum.

 

[JjamesIII]

Soooo I’m waffling back and forth on the best caliber to run for a dedicated Coyote AR rig. I currently run 223 but it doesn’t quite have the ass I’m looking for…. This is going to be my dedicated thermal rig which I do not have lrf so I’m wanting the flattest option out to 300.

So I’ve come down the decision whether I try and stay in the AR 15 platform and run a 6.5 Grendel or if I graduate up to an AR10 in 6cm.

I’m not worried about hides and I can reload if needed. Right now 6 creed seems to have the best supply of ammo. So I’m thinking AR10 in 6 creed might be my best bet. I can’t seem to even find brass for 6.5 Grendel… but I’m a year out from next coyote season so the optimist in me thinks i could source ammo or components at some point.

So here is my pro con list:

6.5 Grendel:

Pros:
-much cheaper to build - already have a lower and a bunch of components
-smaller, lighter rig
-way more barrel options

Cons:
-ammo is non existent
-not as flat/fast as 6cm (I think?)

6 creed

Pros:
-more factory annoy available
-flatter/faster shooting

Cons:
-more expensive to build
-way less barrel choices
-big/heavier gun


What you you do? Ar10 in 6 creed or ar15 in 6.5 Grendel?

As wcb said, I’d run a Valkyrie if .223 isn’t hot enough. Ar-10 bulid is close to another
$1k for something that won’t be noticeably advantageous until beyond 400 yards. A night time hunter probably doesn’t need to take shots beyond that range.
Some can be finicky with cycle issues if you don’t do your homework. It’s not like the ar-15 cross compatibility.
The weight is another thing to consider. Ar-10’s with a good 18+ inch barrel are noticeably heavier than a compact at-15. If you’re like me, coyote hunting is a lot of hiking. This year I’m actually taking a step backwards away from heavy varmint builds and going in the direction of a lighter 16” .223 wylde ar rig. My shots at dogs is usually around 80 yards in Ohio field set ups.

 

[satchamo]

As wcb said, I’d run a Valkyrie if .223 isn’t hot enough. Ar-10 bulid is close to another
$1k for something that won’t be noticeably advantageous until beyond 400 yards. A night time hunter probably doesn’t need to take shots beyond that range.
Some can be finicky with cycle issues if you don’t do your homework. It’s not like the ar-15 cross compatibility.
The weight is another thing to consider. Ar-10’s with a good 18+ inch barrel are noticeably heavier than a compact at-15. If you’re like me, coyote hunting is a lot of hiking. This year I’m actually taking a step backwards away from heavy varmint builds and going in the direction of a lighter 16” .223 wylde ar rig. My shots at dogs is usually around 80 yards in Ohio field set ups.

Yeah I decided to go with the 224 valk. Think I’m gonna order a wilson combat 20 in barrel. I wanted an 18 but I honestly don’t see a ton of options out there.

Question on the BCG - do I just need a new bolt? But I can keep using my 5.56 Bcg?

 

[JjamesIII]

I believe so, but I personally buy matched sets and keep them together. Tool craft makes most of the oem bolts, then various companies may send them out for proprietary coatings. I’ve had good luck with them and didn’t notice any difference from a premium bcg compared to theirs. I spend my money on the barrel and trigger groups, the rest of the components don’t really have much bearing in regards to accuracy.

 

[Bad habit]

I run a 6.8 spec on my ar15. 90 grain Barnes does them in out to 400 yards

 

[msalm]

If trajectories are all your looking for, 17 Rem, 204 Ruger, and the 20 Practical/tactical would all offer flatter trajectory with a bit further hold on fur range. Anchoring a coyote at any angle/hit location/distance the advantage goes to the larger calibers. The 224 Valkyrie with a 8-9 twist and 60gr Sierra TMK’s would be a pretty sweet setup.

 

[Byobsob]

Just buy a Grendel upper and do the easy swap out with your current ar15.. You will find bullets and brass if you look around. It just comes and goes. only paid 500.00 for my Grendel upper and it works great.. I have a 6 creed as well but I need to watch the shot count as it burns barrels quicker. You can find 6.5 Grendel steel case ammo for plinking fmj just like 223/556 if you want

 

[satchamo]

Just buy a Grendel upper and do the easy swap out with your current ar15.. You will find bullets and brass if you look around. It just comes and goes. only paid 500.00 for my Grendel upper and it works great.. I have a 6 creed as well but I need to watch the shot count as it burns barrels quicker. You can find 6.5 Grendel steel case ammo for plinking fmj just like 223/556 if you want

I think I’m gonna just hold off and build a 6 creed next year and keep using a 223 in the interim and just spend more time shooting and learning the gun.

 

[robertchutch]

keep in mind the factories producing grendel steel case have announced they are ceasing production to ammo cost will get worse with time

 

[WCB]

Yeah I decided to go with the 224 valk. Think I’m gonna order a wilson combat 20 in barrel. I wanted an 18 but I honestly don’t see a ton of options out there.

Question on the BCG - do I just need a new bolt? But I can keep using my 5.56 Bcg?

You obviously need a new upper, mags, and just a bolt, same carrier.