AR15 Arm Brace Comment Period By Jan 4 Act now

[Desk Jockey]

Agree with all of the above save for the confiscation. I just don't fear any confiscation scheme that isnt protected by armed 2nd amendment proponents. There's a couple million Veterans that swore to uphold the constitution and I don't think this country has the stomach for the mess that confiscation would entail.
We have local sheriff's departments refusing to enforce gun laws and health ordinances so who exactly is going to come pick these guns up?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

I guess I am not sure what your position is on this issue. It seems like you are saying that no one should be concerned about new, more restrictive gun laws because it is unlikely they will ever be enforced.

so I guess you are not bothered By a new law that would impose a class B felony if you didn’t register you gun and then gives the government enhanced powers of search and the ability to slow purchase and transfers through an arbitrary administrative process.

as far as weapons registration and confiscation in other contexts, there is a long and sad history of this throughout the world. it predates the Us and firearms for that matter. Conspicuous examples in the 20th century are Germany, Cuba, Venezuela. The most recent “representative democracy“ was South Africa in 2018.

 

[amassi]

I guess I am not sure what your position is on this issue. It seems like you are saying that no one should be concerned about new, more restrictive gun laws because it is unlikely they will ever be enforced.

so I guess you are not bothered By a new law that would impose a class B felony if you didn’t register you gun and then gives the government enhanced powers of search and the ability to slow purchase and transfers through an arbitrary administrative process.

as far as weapons registration and confiscation in other contexts, there is a long and sad history of this throughout the world. it predates the Us and firearms for that matter. Conspicuous examples in the 20th century are Germany, Cuba, Venezuela. The most recent “representative democracy“ was South Africa in 2018.

There are no new laws being proposed at this time, merely enforcement of a 86 year old law that some very creative entrepreneurs found a loophole to coincidentally Obama's atf started this mess by being wishy washy on the brace, trump's atf decided to clarify.

Of those countries that you listed none were representative republics
Fascist
Communist
Communist
Socialist
South Africa is a dino.(democracy in name only) and is now a one party supermajority

I think confiscation is trotted out as a paper tiger by the groups that stand to raise funds by scaring americans. Just like "globalism"

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Wvroach]

There are no new laws being proposed at this time, merely enforcement of a 86 year old law that some very creative entrepreneurs found a loophole to coincidentally Obama's atf started this mess by being wishy washy on the brace, trump's atf decided to clarify.

Of those countries that you listed none were representative republics
Fascist
Communist
Communist
Socialist
South Africa is a dino.(democracy in name only) and is now a one party supermajority

I think confiscation is trotted out as a paper tiger by the groups that stand to raise funds by scaring americans. Just like "globalism"

Sent from my SM-G892A using

Well when you have several sitting congressmen and women as well as the "president-elect" saying "they should be illegal" "hell yes we're coming for your ar15s and ak47s", "if I could get 51 votes I'd have made you turn em all in me and mrs. America" and a slew of similar statements I wouldn't say anyone is fear mongering about confiscation.

The current red flag "laws" show you they will and the Gestapo thugs who enforce these "laws" are the same ones that'll enforce whatever their Master tells them to.

 

[amassi]

Well when you have several sitting congressmen and women as well as the "president-elect" saying "they should be illegal" "hell yes we're coming for your ar15s and ak47s", "if I could get 51 votes I'd have made you turn em all in me and mrs. America" and a slew of similar statements I wouldn't say anyone is fear mongering about confiscation.

The current red flag "laws" show you they will and the Gestapo thugs who enforce these "laws" are the same ones that'll enforce whatever their Master tells them to.

Just like from 2008-2010 when those same politicians had a majority in the house, Senate & whitehorse.
Those are baseless soundbites to energize a base and get elected. It worked, fortunately it will be checked and left for the next election cycle.

What Gestapo thugs? The nameless badgeless thugs that showed up at the protest from DHS? I agree we should all be concerned with such blatant abuse of power

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Wvroach]

Baseless soundbytes... Your funny man, either delusional, living in a sheltered environment, or trolling not quite sure.

Not sure what "protest" you are referring too. But the ones I'm referring too killed Duncan lemp, Gary willis, Ryan Whitakerin their own homes over red flag laws..

And they were on rooftops and among the crowd on January 20th 2020 in Richmond VA at the last protest I attended...

 

[Rob5589]

All out confiscation may not be viable but, bringing the country into a California-like compliance is. Mag capacity limits, ammo purchase back ground checks, limits on how much ammo you may sell, semi auto rifle/shotgun configuration restrictions, safe handgun rosters, no suppressors, no NFA weapons, non lead hunting ammo, heavy restrictions on gun shops and ranges, no person to person transfers, no giving ammo to anyone without a background check, etc, etc. Trust me, you do not want to give an inch because they will take a mile, as the saying goes.

 

[amassi]

Baseless soundbytes... Your funny man, either delusional, living in a sheltered environment, or trolling not quite sure.

Not sure what "protest" you are referring too. But the ones I'm referring too killed Duncan lemp, Gary willis, Ryan Whitakerin their own homes over red flag laws..

And they were on rooftops and among the crowd on January 20th 2020 in Richmond VA at the last protest I attended...

DHS sent federal police to protest to protect their property, they pulled citizens off the street unmirandized and without pc. When pressed they refused to identify themselves and were indistinguishable wearing multicam. No I'd, no badge, no identity patches of any sort. Nameless, faceless masked cowards that violated american citizens civil rights.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[amassi]

All out confiscation may not be viable but, bringing the country into a California-like compliance is. Mag capacity limits, ammo purchase back ground checks, limits on how much ammo you may sell, semi auto rifle/shotgun configuration restrictions, safe handgun rosters, no suppressors, no NFA weapons, non lead hunting ammo, heavy restrictions on gun shops and ranges, no person to person transfers, no giving ammo to anyone without a background check, etc, etc. Trust me, you do not want to give an inch because they will take a mile, as the saying goes.

How? They couldn't do it with a triple majority and a split court 4-4-1( Roberts prob goes lib). By what function does this sweeping legislation befall this nation?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[texag10]

I would like to interject here. I knew this was coming. I feel it is unfair to the people who paid the $200 tax stamp, waited upwards of 1 year, only to have some others cheat the system and by putting a brace on their AR and use it solely as a stock. I also want to say that we should do away with the NFA completely, but that is a different day for a different thread. With the rules we have now, I feel pistol braces are not valid under the law.

I did all this, just e-filed so my wait was ~30 days. I don't give a shit about this being fair to me. I'm not going to file a hurt feelings report if braces stay in.

Maybe if ATF officials want to create laws, they should run for, you know, the legislative branch of the US government.....

 

[amassi]

I did all this, just e-filed so my wait was ~30 days. I don't give a shit about this being fair to me. I'm not going to file a hurt feelings report if braces stay in.

Maybe if ATF officials want to create laws, they should run for, you know, the legislative branch of the US government.....

What law did atf create?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Rob5589]

How? They couldn't do it with a triple majority and a split court 4-4-1( Roberts prob goes lib). By what function does this sweeping legislation befall this nation?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

I honestly couldn't tell you. And nobody said "sweeping." It is the little chunks taken over time. What I can tell you is that the supreme court has refused several cases from California on these issues. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

 

[amassi]

I honestly couldn't tell you. And nobody said "sweeping." It is the little chunks taken over time. What I can tell you is that the supreme court has refused several cases from California on these issues. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

They've(democrats) shown no stomach for long drawn out gun reform outside of pandering for voter support. Probably because when they lose a landmark case like Heller it provides precedent to weakening gun control across the US.
That was old Scotus kicking down ca cases back to district courts to fight over- supposedly those cases lacked enough evidence brought by the plaintiffs that they're rights had been denied
Two of trump's appointees have called for hearing more gun rights cases so I'd assume more action is forthcoming

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[CorbLand]

This all reminds me of a thing my uncle you to say to get people all riled up. “They will never take guns from law abiding citizens.” Everyone gets all riled up. “Nope, they won’t take them from law abiding citizens. They will turn them into felons first.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[carter33]

What law did atf create?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

I think it has more to do with the ATF interpreting the law to fit a desired outcome. I won’t pretend to be an expert on this but if the ATF makes a decision that would overnight cause otherwise law abiding Americans to be felons based on what was a legal item at the time of purchase that seems to be a gross overreach. I understand the idea would be they then have to register the item but that would also be a retroactive tax.

The more these arguments have waged in our country the more I lean toward the side saying we cannot give a single inch. I would like to agree that confiscation would never occur and I don’t believe it would be possible in the grandiose idea of it however it seems plausible to do it piecemeal. On the surface I could see the sensibility of red flag laws but as with most gun laws people seeking to take away firearms will likely try to weaponize the law.

 

[amassi]

I think it has more to do with the ATF interpreting the law to fit a desired outcome. I won’t pretend to be an expert on this but if the ATF makes a decision that would overnight cause otherwise law abiding Americans to be felons based on what was a legal item at the time of purchase that seems to be a gross overreach. I understand the idea would be they then have to register the item but that would also be a retroactive tax.

The more these arguments have waged in our country the more I lean toward the side saying we cannot give a single inch. I would like to agree that confiscation would never occur and I don’t believe it would be possible in the grandiose idea of it however it seems plausible to do it piecemeal. On the surface I could see the sensibility of red flag laws but as with most gun laws people seeking to take away firearms will likely try to weaponize the law.

The atf never interpreted a law as that's not their role- they enforce laws. Laws are interpreted in the judicial system.
The ATF are tasked with interpreting the legality of devices and these decisions are decimated through a series of white papers(memoranda) they do this when items dont fit neatly into the standing legal definition.

Part of the outrage with this pistol brace is because this is about the 4th or 5th white paper concerning the pistol stabilizing brace. They have waffled a bunch about what the brace was, who and how it could be used. The timing is seen as being coincidental, post election. New administration, maybe people trying to keep their jobs and sway favor.

This would make no one a felon there is no felony since there is a clear path to remaining legal.
1- keep your pistol and remove the brace
2- register the pistol as a sbr, the tax stamp fee is Waived(no retroactive tax)
I agree we as gun owners shouldn't yield one single inch in gun legislation. This isnt legislation, its merely a new interpretation on a product based upon it's intended use and its actual use.


Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[carter33]

The atf never interpreted a law as that's not their role- they enforce laws. Laws are interpreted in the judicial system.
The ATF are tasked with interpreting the legality of devices and these decisions are decimated through a series of white papers(memoranda) they do this when items dont fit neatly into the standing legal definition.

Part of the outrage with this pistol brace is because this is about the 4th or 5th white paper concerning the pistol stabilizing brace. They have waffled a bunch about what the brace was, who and how it could be used. The timing is seen as being coincidental, post election. New administration, maybe people trying to keep their jobs and sway favor.

This would make no one a felon there is no felony since there is a clear path to remaining legal.
1- keep your pistol and remove the brace
2- register the pistol as a sbr, the tax stamp fee is Waived(no retroactive tax)
I agree we as gun owners shouldn't yield one single inch in gun legislation. This isnt legislation, its merely a new interpretation on a product based upon it's intended use and its actual use.


Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

You have some good points. But I think the first paragraph sounds like mostly semantics, of course they cannot interpret law but if they can fluidly interpret the legality of owning a specific piece of property I personally cannot see much of difference between that and interpreting a law. I think regulatory agencies have been given too much freedom in a multitude of instances not just this one.

Also yes their is path to remain legal and not be a felon but if you don’t proactively take measures to be compliant then you would be. I am assuming you would also have to get rid of or destroy the brace as well as they could probably get you on intent if you kept the brace handy. Also assuming they don’t plan on compensating anyone for that loss.

You sound pretty well read up on the subject so would the item even be legal if you simply removed the brace? How I read some of the verbiage I was thinking anything not typically a pistol caliber or weight could also be considered an SBR under the new guidance.

 

[bdg848]

"I'm pro 2A BUT..." hahaha. Found the Fudd.

 

[Reburn]

Part of the outrage with this pistol brace is because this is about the 4th or 5th white paper concerning the pistol stabilizing brace. They have waffled a bunch about what the brace was, who and how it could be used. The timing is seen as being coincidental, post election. New administration, maybe people trying to keep their jobs and sway favor.

Here is the rub for me and for the record I don’t have a dog in the hunt. Both of my SBRs are registered stamped, engraved and both have actual buttstocks on them. The AFT has already made multiple rulings on the legality of pistol braces and how they can be used. Going back and basically saying' "sorry fellas we changed our mind again" creates a ton of confusion and IMO should not be legal for a government agency to do without the direction of the supreme court. They had their shot at the pig. They made a decision. They must live with their decision like the rest of us until they receive further direction via the legislative branch or the judicial branch.

 

[Desk Jockey]

There are no new laws being proposed at this time, merely enforcement of a 86 year old law that some very creative entrepreneurs found a loophole to coincidentally Obama's atf started this mess by being wishy washy on the brace, trump's atf decided to clarify.

Of those countries that you listed none were representative republics
Fascist
Communist
Communist
Socialist
South Africa is a dino.(democracy in name only) and is now a one party supermajority

I think confiscation is trotted out as a paper tiger by the groups that stand to raise funds by scaring americans. Just like "globalism"

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

There are laws being proposed. for example here is the link to the proposed law on the Biden platform for NFA registration of assault weapons. https://giffords.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Giffords_GLC_assault-weapons_NFA.pdf

Beyond proposals, a multitude have been filed. Over a hundred currently in the US Congress. More than a dozen in prefiling for the 2021 texas legislature and on and on. Additionally, existing laws, interpretations, and administrative policies, letter rulings etc. are being examined in an attempt to limit firearms ownership of various types.

You suggest that we shouldn’t be concern about what actions - legislative, judcial, executive order, administrative policy or determination - take place because the government would never enforce them With mass confiscation. some of us become concerned a bit sooner in the process And would rather not rely on selective enforcement by the government.

 

[T28w]

Does anyone actually use the brace as it was “intended” to be used.

I guess I don’t see the issue of calling it what it actually is. It’s a sbr. Now if we are upset over registering sbr, that would make more sense than acting like 99% of these pistols weren’t bought to get around registering it.