Anyone paying attention to Michigan?

Back in the late forty’s and fifty’s my parents had 80 acres near Lewiston. I was born in 1952 so not hunting yet. Mom was pregnant with me in 51 and shot her biggest buck that fall. Anyway they told me during that time it was easy to see 25 to 50 deer in a day there. There were no doe tags at that time. Funny how times have changed. They sold that land in 1964 to what now is part of Garlands Golf Resort. Was standard practice back in the day to throw their harvest on the old Buick for the ride home. Bad look to do that these days.
 
The fact that these older hunters who refuse to shoot does because there aren't enough deer in their eyes BUT cry bloody murder to shoot 2 bucks is exactly why the second tag is going away.

Would you invite random hunters onto your land to hunt? Tear it up, shoot button bucks because they can't tell the difference between fawns and adult deer? I'm a small property owner and I wouldn't let randoms on. I donate excess does. The entire state has a problem of shooting too many bucks. There's roughly 40k second bucks shot. That's not exactly peanuts.

Yeah it’s crystal clear you are a landowner in southern Michigan.

Would not be hard at all to find some really ethical and incredibly experienced Michigan hunters that would follow your rules and help you with your overpopulatio…if that’s in fact what you wanted. But your tone/attitude displayed here is quite antagonistic. And hypocritical.

Your small parcel problem is not going to be solved by shoving what’s best for you on the other 99% of the hunters in Michigan. But you will get your way, nothing will change in your nirvana and the world will go on.

Hunting in Michigan is not and will never be again a high quality experience. The last quality experience I had in Michigan was 10 years ago bear hunting on Drummond Island…I had the only tag.

Too many people. Too little management for the resource and too much management for revenue.
 
These changes have been being worked on for years. Several biologists have been sounding the alarm but how buck centric hunters here are. Won't shoot a doe but think they should be able to plug 2 bucks. Make that make sense.
Does produce say 8 offspring during their lives. some of those will be bucks. Bucks don't have babies. Any buck can "fertilize" a doe.

Let's play with numbers - doe has 4 buck and 4 doe offspring. The 4 does likewise do the same, 4 bucks and 4 does. Using only the original doe and her offspring's offspring (mom to grandbaby) numbers, you get 20 bucks and 20 does out of each original doe. For every buck you don't shoot, you get 0 additional deer.

Doe
buck buck buck buck doe doe doe doe
Now we do those 4 does (daughters to produce grandbabies)
buck buck buck buck doe doe doe doe
buck buck buck buck doe doe doe doe
buck buck buck buck doe doe doe doe
buck buck buck buck doe doe doe doe

If you want to hunt, see some deer, and shoot something, the best thing is not to shoot does.

If you get the doe killing wish, you will see less deer for years to come. Is that what you really want?

Most folks answer surveys based off what feels good to them right now. I want big bucks, biologists say to shoot does, why doesn't everyone think the way I do?, etc. If the biologists could use the numbers vs the carry capacity, and maybe some other factors like vehicle collisions or the latest EHD outbreak to manage the herd things would be better. But deer hunting is politics.

Buckcentric - cute word. Most hunters in most states only kill a buck, sometimes 2 a year. Nothing wrong with it.

If they need to kill does, need to go with buy a tag - kill doe to get buck tag.

If you need does shot on your farm, go to the local church youth group and have em come out in rotations. The kids will gladly wipe every deer off your place.
 
Does produce say 8 offspring during their lives. some of those will be bucks. Bucks don't have babies. Any buck can "fertilize" a doe.

Let's play with numbers - doe has 4 buck and 4 doe offspring. The 4 does likewise do the same, 4 bucks and 4 does. Using only the original doe and her offspring's offspring (mom to grandbaby) numbers, you get 20 bucks and 20 does out of each original doe. For every buck you don't shoot, you get 0 additional deer.

Doe
buck buck buck buck doe doe doe doe
Now we do those 4 does (daughters to produce grandbabies)
buck buck buck buck doe doe doe doe
buck buck buck buck doe doe doe doe
buck buck buck buck doe doe doe doe
buck buck buck buck doe doe doe doe

If you want to hunt, see some deer, and shoot something, the best thing is not to shoot does.

If you get the doe killing wish, you will see less deer for years to come. Is that what you really want?

Most folks answer surveys based off what feels good to them right now. I want big bucks, biologists say to shoot does, why doesn't everyone think the way I do?, etc. If the biologists could use the numbers vs the carry capacity, and maybe some other factors like vehicle collisions or the latest EHD outbreak to manage the herd things would be better. But deer hunting is politics.

Buckcentric - cute word. Most hunters in most states only kill a buck, sometimes 2 a year. Nothing wrong with it.

If they need to kill does, need to go with buy a tag - kill doe to get buck tag.

If you need does shot on your farm, go to the local church youth group and have em come out in rotations. The kids will gladly wipe every deer off your place.
Talk to anyone who knows anything. less is more. More does doesn't equate to better herd health, bucks, etc.

Michigan is the worst in the midwest when it comes to hunters being obsessed with shooting bucks and not does. The data doesn't lie.
 
Yeah it’s crystal clear you are a landowner in southern Michigan.

Would not be hard at all to find some really ethical and incredibly experienced Michigan hunters that would follow your rules and help you with your overpopulatio…if that’s in fact what you wanted. But your tone/attitude displayed here is quite antagonistic. And hypocritical.

Your small parcel problem is not going to be solved by shoving what’s best for you on the other 99% of the hunters in Michigan. But you will get your way, nothing will change in your nirvana and the world will go on.

Hunting in Michigan is not and will never be again a high quality experience. The last quality experience I had in Michigan was 10 years ago bear hunting on Drummond Island…I had the only tag.

Too many people. Too little management for the resource and too much management for revenue.
Our regs are the main problem holding the entire state. They have get years made the hunting culture and mindset is what it is today.

Hunters here in general want far too many deer on the landscape and think they can increase the deer herd if they just never shoot does. Yeah that's not realistic. Look into the history of deer regulations by year and why they were made. Compare them to modern day now. Then you'll see why the DNR wants major change. This isn't about what I want or "forcing change on you". It seems per usual it's the older hunters that have mindset which is rather odd.
 
Back in the late forty’s and fifty’s my parents had 80 acres near Lewiston. I was born in 1952 so not hunting yet. Mom was pregnant with me in 51 and shot her biggest buck that fall. Anyway they told me during that time it was easy to see 25 to 50 deer in a day there. There were no doe tags at that time. Funny how times have changed. They sold that land in 1964 to what now is part of Garlands Golf Resort. Was standard practice back in the day to throw their harvest on the old Buick for the ride home. Bad look to do that these days.
Yup! logging and other factors kept the deer herd very high. There was a very good presentation at one of the NRC meetings how decades and decades ago hunters were artificially propping up the deer herd and per usual it showed its ugly face and the consequences from it. The UP is another great example. Hunters thought it was great! Seeing deer and shooting deer! Perfect! No. That's not good for the deer herd at all.
 
John didn’t factor in all the wolves up there now eating the few deer that were left. But the DNR does not count them either…

It’s amazing. No non resident comes to Michigan to hunt deer. EVERY non resident that goes to OH, IN,KY, IL, KS,IA,WI shoots a buck and ALL the residents shoot bucks. I’ve hunted most of those states all on my (nimrod) own and have had quality experiences. How’s that possible?
 
John didn’t factor in all the wolves up there now eating the few deer that were left. But the DNR does not count them either…

It’s amazing. No non resident comes to Michigan to hunt deer. EVERY non resident that goes to OH, IN,KY, IL, KS,IA,WI shoots a buck and ALL the residents shoot bucks. I’ve hunted most of those states all on my (nimrod) own and have had quality experiences. How’s that possible?
Read the article and you'll seen what's always been the product of boom and bust deer herds up there....habitat and weather.
 
I use to hunt in Gladwin Co, on my grandpa's property with him, my uncle and one of my uncle friend's on a small, 20 acre parcel. They would shoot any legal buck during gun season and be PROUD. I hunted state land in Calhoun in '12 on the gun opener with my grandpa when he sold his land in '11. I NEVER heard soooo many gun shots in my life! I only saw does during mid day and they were panting like dogs from getting shot at every direction! They were literally black from crossing the mucky creeks. While I was in stand, I told myself the following year I'd be buying my own property. I've lost a lot of permission from ppl selling their properties over the years.

When you have a ton of small parcels with multiple hunters, it doesn't take much to effect the deer heard during gun season, imo. Like I mentioned in an early post, we have to many hunter per square mile, IMO.

Southern Michigan is much different. There's much more acreage that ppl own and it's very limited on public land. I was fortunate enough to buy my first house back in '13 with 18 acres. EHD basically killed EVERYTHING in '12 before I bought my house. From '13-'18 it was very rough for hunting. In that time, I only killed (1) 4pt and a 1 doe for meat. Since '20 is been phenomenal, but I'm also very picky on what bucks I kill, now. In '25 I killed a 130's and 160's. I have neighbors around me that kill whatever bucks they see with no size. I'm normally tagged out during bow. I shoot my fair share of does during gun season to help my gf and few friends out for meat.

Branch, Calhoun and Jackson is littered with deer. Hell, this morning when I was going into work, I had to stop twice to let deer cross the road. It ain't uncommon to see 20-40 does in my neighbors fields.

1 buck tag ain't going help without APR on small parcels, but this is just my opinion from my hunting experience, YMMV. 🤷‍♂️
I live and hunt in Gladwin county, in an area of relatively smaller parcels. I've owned my property for 26 years, and I've never seen anything bigger than 8 points here. Most of my neighbors will shoot damn near anything.

This new tag system, single tag for does only and having to buy a combo tag for a buck, is nothing but another money grab by the state. I rarely hunt small game, so WTF should I have to buy a small game license? Same line of thinking, if I'm not going to shoot a doe, why should I have to buy a doe tag?
 
I live and hunt in Gladwin county, in an area of relatively smaller parcels. I've owned my property for 26 years, and I've never seen anything bigger than 8 points here. Most of my neighbors will shoot damn near anything.

This new tag system, single tag for does only and having to buy a combo tag for a buck, is nothing but another money grab by the state. I rarely hunt small game, so WTF should I have to buy a small game license? Same line of thinking, if I'm not going to shoot a doe, why should I have to buy a doe tag?
Why aren't you going to shoot a doe?
 
The UP should be one deer period. There are so many things going against that herd.

Let’s be honest, from today’s perspective It’s never been good there compared to Wisconsin. The only thing separating the two is a border defined on paper, and season structures. You could hunt a lifetime on the UP side and never see a solid buck, hop the border, wala, nice one. Its management, lack of that has nuked MI deer but as long as someone has their 40 acres, their blinds that have been sitting in the same spot since the 70s passed down generation to generation, and now their early crossbow season, everyone is content.
 
The quiet period was designed to protect all bucks when they are most vulnerable. I understand their thinking but Im not a fan. Even though i've never shoot a buck with my bow past November 9th.

There will be bringing forward to different amendments to the gun season. One with a quiet period and one without.
And screw this 'quiet time'! My favorite days in the woods are the week or so before gun season.
 
I have shot does in the past, and likely will again in the future.

2 reasons why I'm not shooting 1 this year, and didn't last year:

1, we don't need the meat.

2, I like sitting in the woods and watching deer. The more the merrier.
 
I live and hunt in Gladwin county, in an area of relatively smaller parcels. I've owned my property for 26 years, and I've never seen anything bigger than 8 points here. Most of my neighbors will shoot damn near anything.

This new tag system, single tag for does only and having to buy a combo tag for a buck, is nothing but another money grab by the state. I rarely hunt small game, so WTF should I have to buy a small game license? Same line of thinking, if I'm not going to shoot a doe, why should I have to buy a doe tag?

The “hunting” license is a way to get more money from the federal government. It is a good thing. Well it should be, I’ve a sneaking suspicion “big Gretch” somehow funnels it all into her own pocket…
 
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