Anyone paying attention to Michigan?

[Scandiacus]

Did straight wall get removed?

Nothing's final yet, but it's being entertained by the NRC. I believe we'll know for sure after their May 13th meeting. I wouldn't sell (or buy) anything until then.

 

[craigrh13]

This is a great example showing how "facts" aren't as black and white as they are made out to be. You are using days in the woods to say there won't be a loss in hunting days(opportunity). Could you tell me that the difference between OH and MI isn't due to the greater number of "fair weather" hunters in MI? We have a strong "camp" tradition and likely more hunters who only hunt the first week/weekend of rifle season, thus shifting the numbers down. Is this theory true? It's certainly a possibility.

I don't think you can argue that 1 buck tag provides more opportunity than 2 buck tags. I'm still looking for the data or argument on how this "helps the herd" statewide. Anecdotally, I could see how OBR coupled with the new "doe with a bow" could help balance the (heavily doe skewed) UP deer herd along the superior shoreline. But I don't see the need to reduce hunter opportunity in SE MI in the name of "herd health".

Per hunter surveys the Average Michigan hunter spends 12 days bow hunting and or 6 days gun hunting.

Michigan hunters have a horrible buck centric culture with far too many not shooting does. They have nobody but themselves to blame for the second tag going away.

 

[craigrh13]

Nothing's final yet, but it's being entertained by the NRC. I believe we'll know for sure after their May 13th meeting. I wouldn't sell (or buy) anything until then.

It's the one amendment that will likely have 6 possibly all 7 votes. Every other amendment is sitting right at 4 votes majority.

 

[MichiganMan25]

Per hunter surveys the Average Michigan hunter spends 12 days bow hunting and or 6 days gun hunting.

Michigan hunters have a horrible buck centric culture with far too many not shooting does. They have nobody but themselves to blame for the second tag going away.

Again, I didn't get that 'survey'

So trying to get bigger bucks by going to one buck, isn't 'buck centric'??

Don't forget, there is more to the state of Michigan than Jackson County. The areas that I hunt and hunters that I know in zone 2 are already unhappy with how low the deer numbers are. Shooting more does is not how you get those numbers up.

 

[Steve O]

It's the one amendment that will likely have 6 possibly all 7 votes. Every other amendment is sitting right at 4 votes majority.

How about a link to all these amendments and also who to call to tell them their “quiet” period is the stupidest thing ever proposed?

 

[craigrh13]

Again, I didn't get that 'survey'

So trying to get bigger bucks by going to one buck, isn't 'buck centric'??

Don't forget, there is more to the state of Michigan than Jackson County. The areas that I hunt and hunters that I know in zone 2 are already unhappy with how low the deer numbers are. Shooting more does is not how you get those numbers up.

Whose fault is it that you don't complete the surveys? If you can post on social media you can find and fill out the surveys.

Yeah yeah. Michigan hunters are obsessed with seeing lots of deer and if they aren't seeing lots of deer on their little chunk then by golly the deer herd must be crap everywhere.

Who's the ones buck centric? The ones demanding their right to shoot two little young bucks or the ones saying how about you shoot a doe along with your little buck?

 

[craigrh13]

How about a link to all these amendments and also who to call to tell them their “quiet” period is the stupidest thing ever proposed?

The quiet period was designed to protect all bucks when they are most vulnerable. I understand their thinking but Im not a fan. Even though i've never shoot a buck with my bow past November 9th.

There will be bringing forward to different amendments to the gun season. One with a quiet period and one without.

 

[Hickory1991]

What I am trying to wrap my head around is how the DNR has been so liberal with the combo licenses and antlerless tags the last few years then claim harvest numbers were down last year, and hunter numbers were down then come up with all these proposed changes to licensing and season dates just doesn’t add up. Has to be more to the story.

 

[Rich M]

Whose fault is it that you don't complete the surveys? If you can post on social media you can find and fill out the surveys.

Yeah yeah. Michigan hunters are obsessed with seeing lots of deer and if they aren't seeing lots of deer on their little chunk then by golly the deer herd must be crap everywhere.

Who's the ones buck centric? The ones demanding their right to shoot two little young bucks or the ones saying how about you shoot a doe along with your little buck?

Fiesty.

Surveys are a problem. My biologists do the same. They say we need to kill more does. Ask em for the science and numbers behind it and they say it is based off some stupid survey where hunters and residents provide their "opinion" and that's how they manage.

Basically - we asked how many does they wanted to kill and they couldn't tell us other than encouraging folks to kill does. I hunt a small property in an area of small properties. Imagine if one of the neighbors started whacking and stacking cause the biologist said - then there'd be no deer around for the rest of us.

Scary shit when you have biology and management run by public opinion.

 

[craigrh13]

Fiesty.

Surveys are a problem. My biologists do the same. They say we need to kill more does. Ask em for the science and numbers behind it and they say it is based off some stupid survey where hunters and residents provide their "opinion" and that's how they manage.

Basically - we asked how many does they wanted to kill and they couldn't tell us other than encouraging folks to kill does. I hunt a small property in an area of small properties. Imagine if one of the neighbors started whacking and stacking cause the biologist said - then there'd be no deer around for the rest of us.

Scary shit when you have biology and management run by public opinion.

These changes have been being worked on for years. Several biologists have been sounding the alarm but how buck centric hunters here are. Won't shoot a doe but think they should be able to plug 2 bucks. Make that make sense.

 

[Netherman]

I'm still waiting on the "for the good of the herd" argument on why I should give up opportunity (second buck tag). Best I can tell the argument is "it will make people shoot more does" with the tongue in cheek "so we get bigger bucks". Oh, and while we're at it lets make a quiet period (more lost opportunity) to protect bucks when they are most vulnerable, so we can kill more does.

If more doe harvest is the goal why not take the KS approach and give everyone who buys a buck tag a free doe tag? As mentioned previously in this thread a majority of the "too many does/deer" is due to access. I'd like to see more research to determine the impact of baiting on CWD and other disease transmission. If the data doesn't show an impact I'd be all for private land baiting.

Anecdotally, I've seen an uptick on public land hunters (particularly on AG edges) since the baiting ban. My theory is that they previously hunted 2-10 acre parcels over bait and couldn't get the deer to come around after the ban. If baiting were to become legal again they may return to that style and help deer population with a more even distribution of hunters across the landscape.

 

[michihunt]

This is such a complex set of issues. It was been stated before in different ways but my opinion where I hunt in west Michigan is that it is an access issue more than hunter participation. I usually get 1 buck a year and hold my other one “just in case”. I have filled both twice in 20 years. I shoot 1-3 does a year. It has been getting increasingly difficult to get access on private land. It is being consolidated very quickly to several large land owners who don’t offer permissions/leases. I am able to still hunt a lot by hunting public and maintaining numerous small leases but have been putting in a lot of effort to find more spots. Not everyone is doing that and they just phase out. I didn’t realize how fortunate I was growing up hunting 180acres my family farmed. That has now been sold to one of the above landowners…..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[craigrh13]

Access will continue to be the biggest hurdle for hunters. I've been pushing them to start getting out ahead of the rush that will come to public land in the future.

 

[Scandiacus]

It's the one amendment that will likely have 6 possibly all 7 votes. Every other amendment is sitting right at 4 votes majority.

Oh, interesting (and encouraging). I emailed all the commissioners about it, but the only one who responded with a position was Eyster, and he was opposed.

 

[craigrh13]

Eyster is opposed to EVERYTHING. Literally everything.

 

[Steve O]

I don’t care if guys can shoot one buck or two.

With the restricted license it’s criminally minimal the amount of bucks that are taken. Taking away the buck tag is not going to change them to want to shoot a doe. Compared to the old days we basically have unlimited doe tags; for a while it was exactly unlimited doe tags and that’s a big reason there are not many deer where the public land is in NLP (UP is wolves and winter). In the old days it was like hitting the lottery to draw “a” doe permit. And that permit was good for one tiny DMU and if you drew and private land doe tag in that littleDMU you could not use it on public, only private. They were like gold. Now you can shoot all their does you want pretty much. It’s not difficult to get antlerless permits good anywhere.

Elite land baron big buck hunters in southern MI don’t shoot does because it’s a lot of work and it gets tiring; but they certainly aren’t inviting anyone else to do it…

Guys don’t shoot does “up north” is because there aren’t any.

Our habitat sucks and nothing is being done to improve it. No ridiculous “QDM” regulations are going to fix that. The only place the deer herd thrives in Michigan is where the state and the public are not involved.

 

[craigrh13]

The fact that these older hunters who refuse to shoot does because there aren't enough deer in their eyes BUT cry bloody murder to shoot 2 bucks is exactly why the second tag is going away.

Would you invite random hunters onto your land to hunt? Tear it up, shoot button bucks because they can't tell the difference between fawns and adult deer? I'm a small property owner and I wouldn't let randoms on. I donate excess does. The entire state has a problem of shooting too many bucks. There's roughly 40k second bucks shot. That's not exactly peanuts.

 

[Weldor]

Older hunters .....oh that's right I am old. Humor. I shoot does every year, love venison. Good luck to you guys up there.

 

[craigrh13]

Older hunters .....oh that's right I am old. Humor. I shoot does every year, love venison. Good luck to you guys up there.

Michigan has a massive problem where hunters believe they can warehouse does and if you don't see 10-40 deer every sit then the population must be decimated. It's wild. Very unique hunter mindsets here.

 

[Weldor]

I still have family up there, they don't shoot Does very often. My brother has no problem putting one or two in the freezer. He's in northern lower eastside, he does believe the area he hunts is experiencing low deer numbers the last few years. Don't take that wrong he is still seeing deer just not as frequently. First year of no baiting he killed his biggest buck.