Anybody Ditch the Bubble Level?

[Blue Falcon]

Ask and you shall receive


View attachment 700045

Super cool. Has Form thrown one of these on the ground yet?

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[General RE LEE]

Super cool. Has Form thrown one of these on the ground yet?

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I’m not into those tests.

 

[Castle Rock]

Some people need them, others don’t
I make my living making sure stuff is plumb and level and find them superfluous

 

[loadsandlattes]

I didn’t realize how badly I needed one until a buddy told me to level my rifle and send it down range a few times. Before every shot he’d pop a bubble on my scope, I was way out of plumb every single time.

All of my rifles now have spuhr mounts with bubble levels built in, and I’ve trained into my shooting sequence to check the level. For whatever reason, and for what it’s worth - I’m particularly prone to being out of plumb when using a tripod.

 

[TaperPin]

Some people need them, others don’t
I make my living making sure stuff is plumb and level and find them superfluous

Off topic, but we thought it was funny when a contractor we were working for walked around with us finish guys checking framing before we started finish-related blocking prior to Sheetrock. For years we thought this guy had an extraordinary ability to see slightly out of plumb walls by eye - he would eyeball a corner or door opening from across the room and ask to borrow a level and sure enough it would be slightly off - we bought it hook line and sinker. One year he screwed up and called out a corner he couldn’t have seen - so we set up a trap for him - we marked corners and door openings as being checked ok that weren’t and he flipped out without checking anything, which was hilarious. We tried not to laugh as he admitted he came to job and checked it all himself - it was a pathetic way to look cool to the finish guys. Lol

 

[Sled]

I didn’t realize how badly I needed one until a buddy told me to level my rifle and send it down range a few times. Before every shot he’d pop a bubble on my scope, I was way out of plumb every single time.

All of my rifles now have spuhr mounts with bubble levels built in, and I’ve trained into my shooting sequence to check the level. For whatever reason, and for what it’s worth - I’m particularly prone to being out of plumb when using a tripod.

You just need to adjust your sights.

 

[ridgehopper]

It helps me control one more variable. My 400 yard and in guns don’t wear them but I’ve only got one of those these days. If I’m dialing the scopes gunna wear a level.

 

[RWT]

My old Springfield Armory scope has an internal bubble level. It does make a difference at distances over 400 yards for me when shooting silhouettes. Other than the horrific green tint to the glass I loved that scope and wish I bought more of them.

 

[Kimber7man]

Question as I'm getting ready to put some on a few rigs.
What is your procedure to make sure they're installed correctly?

 

[Mike Islander]

UM installed with bubble-view in left eye, reticle in right. Virtually zero weight penalty and easy to ignore when appropriate, just close left eye.

 

[atmat]

I used to not utilize a bubble level. Then I started shooting long range and decided to include them on all scopes.

I figured I’d just “not use” it for closer shots. But now it’s so engrained in my shooting process that I can’t avoid using it.

 

[General RE LEE]

Question as I'm getting ready to put some on a few rigs.
What is your procedure to make sure they're installed correctly?

I plumb the reticle and then install the level.

With that said, getting bubble levels just right is the most nerve racking, tedious process. A lot of them move when you torque down the set screw so I’m constantly having to readjust to get the bubble to be just right.

It’s such a pain in the ass I sometimes just want to ditch them all together lol. Hence this thread.

 

[seand]

Question as I'm getting ready to put some on a few rigs.
What is your procedure to make sure they're installed correctly?

I use a plumb bob (hang a rope with a weight or orange ribbon with the roll at the bottom). line the vertical cross hair up with the plumb bob, then cinch down the level.

One thing, if you want to be effective in the field, like all things shooting - make checking the level part of your std shot process. In the field you are likely to forget to check it when there is game in the crosshairs if it’s not something you normally do.

 

[bluesulphur]

I'm a sub 400 guy and it's never even crossed my mind to use one.

 

[TaperPin]

I picked up a Vortex and even without having anything else to compare it against, it’s clear this is for range guns only. Whoever at Vortex thought it was a great design choice to make the end into a squarish hook that literally snags on things the first time it is used, must have their job because they are related to someone. Lol

 

[pacoalcracker]

I wonder how the top military snipers shooting 100's to 1000's of yards for the past 75+ years got by so well without them? one shot one kill too. maybe they were and are just better shooters.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I wonder how the top military snipers shooting 100's to 1000's of yards for the past 75+ years got by so well without them? one shot one kill too. maybe they were and are just better shooters.

Your average top-50% PRS/NRL shooter would shoot circles around most snipers these days. Phillip Velayo has talked about it a bit. He's a former Marine sniper team leader and was a sniper instructor in the Marine Corps as well. He started shooting PRS thinking he'd shoot circles around civilians and got smoked. After that he stuck with PRS shooting and actually got very good, winning the 2018 PRS Finale. But he's mentioned his shooting practice as a Marine sniper was 30-40 rounds every 3 months. He now shoots more in a week as a PRS competitor for practice than he did in a year as a sniper.

People need to stop mythologizing snipers and realize that shooting is a very small part of their job, and that doesn't necessarily diminish the value they bring to the military. The more we mythologize them, the more they're incentivized to lie/exaggerate like many famous snipers do about their accomplishments.

 

[General RE LEE]

Your average top-50% PRS/NRL shooter would shoot circles around most snipers these days. Phillip Velayo has talked about it a bit. He's a former Marine sniper team leader and was a sniper instructor in the Marine Corps as well. He started shooting PRS thinking he'd shoot circles around civilians and got smoked. After that he stuck with PRS shooting and actually got very good, winning the 2018 PRS Finale. But he's mentioned his shooting practice as a Marine sniper was 30-40 rounds every 3 months. He now shoots more in a week as a PRS competitor for practice than he did in a year as a sniper.

People need to stop mythologizing snipers and realize that shooting is a very small part of their job, and that doesn't necessarily diminish the value they bring to the military. The more we mythologize them, the more they're incentivized to lie/exaggerate like many famous snipers do about their accomplishments.

Hitting a human torso vs shooting little 1/2 MOA groups at 1K are different too.

1-1.25 MOA groups will kill shit and at pretty long distances.

 

[Wetwork]

I didn't realize folks didn't set up the level to be seen while looking through the scope? I shoot with both eyes open so I have the level positioned where I can see it with my left eye. It superimposes the level into my scope views? I can see the bubble is level while looking through the scope at the target. I dont use it inside of 400 yards but past that I make sure I"m plumb.-WW

 

[JohnJohnson]

Hitting a human torso vs shooting little 1/2 MOA groups at 1K are different too.

1-1.25 MOA groups will kill shit and at pretty long distances.

Sure but PRS isn't benchrest. It's mainly positional (tripod, kneeling, modified prone, rifle balanced on a barricade, etc) shooting 1-3MOA steel targets between 400-1300 yards. And when he started competing in 2015 that was before PRS had become as specialized as it is now with 25# race guns. That was back when it was more practical and the rifles were lighter.

The reality is even civilian hobby shooters get exponentially more shooting practice than snipers do. And probably know more about ballistics and rifle systems than your average sniper. Velayo has talked about that too, they're taught on a single rifle system and learn what they have to know on it but the teaching of broader subjects related to ballistics isn't really done as much. Hell, that Nick Irving guy who supposedly has 30+ confirmed kills as an army sniper has said a .50 BMG will blow your arm off if it misses within a couple feet of you.