Any Mauser experts?

[Pickettpuncher]

Your bolt isn’t catching. It’s a cock on close design. You used to get a cock on open but I’m not sure how many are available now.

 

[tater]

If its a cock on close its an 1895. That would make sense that someone spun an old m38 or m96 swede surplus barrel onto it (both small ring actions).

Its starting to make more sense now. It wasn't made inter war, it was pre WW1.

DO NOT rebarrel to a high pressure modern round (the 6.5x55 was originally a low pressure round like the 8MM-they can be loaded hot in new commercial actions but not that one).

 

[Mtnmilsurp]

It looks like that barrel was recontoured on a bench grinder.

 

[long hunter]

Really appreciate it! So we’re confident it’s Chilean of some sort? Likely manufactured pre WW2 (@tater with that info). Obviously rebarreled, and Likely restocked.

So now a few more questions:
1) not of any significant value, correct? Couple hundred bucks to the right person?
2) the action is incredibly smooth, and overall I really like it. However, it catches on the way back forward for the last 3/4” or so. Appears to be manually squishing the firing pins springs, and it’s really stiff/tough to do that. Is there a solution? A new spring? Just disassemble the bolt and lube everything really well?
3) assuming it’s not valuable, and the bolt can be smoothed out, I’m interested in saving the action and rebarreling and restocking it to more modern stuff. Is that a crime to history? I’m not much one for historical guns, but if it should be preserved as much as possible, I respect that. The 6.5x55 appears to have a little more room in the mag well, maybe 1/4-3/8”. Guesses on factory chambering? With that, what cartridges would be possible without major overhaul beyond twisting a new barrel on?

To question 3: I’ve never done any work to a rifle. I don’t really know what I’m getting into as far as cost/effort to rebarrel and restock. Any labor guesstimates for this would be helpful, I can find material costs online for parts I would use.

Thanks again for all your help!

My hunting buddy is in the process of having a Mauser action built into a custom rifle. As I am not a gunsmith, I shall relay some things that's being done to the rifle. He had a barrel in 30-06 (I believe he said it was a Hart barrel) and a sporter stock, the rest is custom work by a very good builder, He told me the smith has re-worked the action to include re-placing the bolt handle, Cera coat finish on all metal parts, custom camo paint on the stock, drill and tap receiver, Something about truing the bolt to the receiver, barrel and a lot of other things, so far, he has close to 1000 dollars into the project. Not counting the price of the action, barrel and stock, seems to me for a bit more you could commission a custom rifle from a good source. Guess it's all in the eye of the gun owner.

 

[Hschweers]

Boy oh boy. A lot here. Okay, so can’t go high pressure, but would something like a .257 Roberts work? It is .473 base, and I know you said the .480” bolt face may not work with that. Could a smith close it? Just add money? Lol

So being cock on close, it’s never going to smooth out to be really easy? That’s unfortunate, as that’s my only gripe with the action.

I would definitely have a smith do all the work, I wouldn’t want to touch it. Looking at barrels - sounds like I need a small ring Mauser barrel? What’s the difference between small and large ring? Midway has a Shilen match grade large ring .257 bob for $340. Add a stock for another few hundred. Call it $800 for stock and barrel. To get a smith to attach the barrel and set the action and barrel would be another $500? $1000? Sounds like it might not be realistic for me, and I’ll either have to shoot it as is or trade/sell.

 

[Mtnmilsurp]

You can get a Dayton traister cock on opening conversion kit. I installed one on my Enfield and it’s now super smooth.

For barrels, your smith would just use a blank. Those midwayusa shilen barrels are for DIYers and you’d need a “series 2” not “ series 3” barrel plus a barrel vice, action wrench, finish reamer, and headspace guages and some way to finish (blue) the barrel. I’ve installed 3 of those and they all turned out great.

The best stock deal you’ll ever find is the wood plus stock at brownells. A little bit of work on your part to inlet and finish but good wood. I’ve done 2 of those and was very pleased.

You can get a timney trigger or Dayton traister or polish the military one you’ve got if you don’t mind two-stage.

 

[Hschweers]

Just talked to a guy over at McGowen. He said they do Mausers all the time, and .257 Roberts shouldn’t be an issue as far as pressures or bolt face go. Gave me the below quote:

Barrel $370
Install $205
Timney Featherweight Deluxe $150
Cock on open conversion $70
Trigger install $45
Cock on open install $50

Potentially square and lap for $85 if the action needs it.

$890 for a custom barrel, new trigger, and cock on open conversion. $975 if it needs square and lap. Need a stock, and install that myself.

I’ve been looking at an x bolt medallion white gold in 25-06 for a while. That would run me $1400 +/-. Is it an absurd thought to go this route instead? I would think I would end up with a potentially better shooting rig going this route. What say you?

 

[long hunter]

Boy oh boy. A lot here. Okay, so can’t go high pressure, but would something like a .257 Roberts work? It is .473 base, and I know you said the .480” bolt face may not work with that. Could a smith close it? Just add money? Lol

So being cock on close, it’s never going to smooth out to be really easy? That’s unfortunate, as that’s my only gripe with the action.

I would definitely have a smith do all the work, I wouldn’t want to touch it. Looking at barrels - sounds like I need a small ring Mauser barrel? What’s the difference between small and large ring? Midway has a Shilen match grade large ring .257 bob for $340. Add a stock for another few hundred. Call it $800 for stock and barrel. To get a smith to attach the barrel and set the action and barrel would be another $500? $1000? Sounds like it might not be realistic for me, and I’ll either have to shoot it as is or trade/sell.

i have a 257 BOB built on a Mauser action, very nice rifle.

 

[Mtnmilsurp]

That bolt handle has definitely been messed with. Make sure the steel is still hardened at the locking lugs. If you send it off to a gunsmith have them check the locking lug recess for setback before committing to any big expenses.

 

[Wapiti1]

Let me sum this one up. It's a small ring 1895 Mauser that is commonly known as the Chilean. The telltale is the third safety lug just behind the bolt handle. Spanish 1895's don't have that feature. It's an early one. Most are marked Chileno on the side above the DWM markings.

It's a cock on close design, but can be fitted with a cock on open kit for a 96. Dayton Traister makes the kit. Not hard to do, but also not for just anybody to install. That said, it doesn't make it function any different or better. Cock on close is actually a faster to cycle design. M1917 Enfields were cock on close too.

Bubba marks are all over that action and barrel. It's been in a bench vise (marks near action flats on the sides), and the barrel was put on with a pipe wrench, then the marks were filed off, sort of. There is some pitting that was filed off below the stock line. It doesn't look ruined, but also not great.

The original chambering was 7X57 Mauser and someone put a Swede barrel on it and reshaped the original stock.

It can be made into a decent rifle with some elbow grease and cash. However, it needs to be in a sedate 46,000psi MAX cartridge. So, NO to the .257 Bob unless you stick to low pressure handloads, which no one does.

The Chileans did rebarrel them to .308 Winchester, but you are trusting a 120 year old action to hold up. And you have ZERO knowledge of it's history along with evidence that Bubba had his greasy moron mitts on it. I know folks redo 96 and 98 Mauser actions into high pressure rifles, but those are different designs and an evolutionary step up from the 93/95 you have.

I'd put on a new 7mm Mauser barrel or 6.5 Swede barrel and enjoy it using low pressure factory ammo.

Jeremy

 

[Hschweers]

Let me sum this one up. It's a small ring 1895 Mauser that is commonly known as the Chilean. The telltale is the third safety lug just behind the bolt handle. Spanish 1895's don't have that feature. It's an early one. Most are marked Chileno on the side above the DWM markings.

It's a cock on close design, but can be fitted with a cock on open kit for a 96. Dayton Traister makes the kit. Not hard to do, but also not for just anybody to install. That said, it doesn't make it function any different or better. Cock on close is actually a faster to cycle design. M1917 Enfields were cock on close too.

Bubba marks are all over that action and barrel. It's been in a bench vise (marks near action flats on the sides), and the barrel was put on with a pipe wrench, then the marks were filed off, sort of. There is some pitting that was filed off below the stock line. It doesn't look ruined, but also not great.

The original chambering was 7X57 Mauser and someone put a Swede barrel on it and reshaped the original stock.

It can be made into a decent rifle with some elbow grease and cash. However, it needs to be in a sedate 46,000psi MAX cartridge. So, NO to the .257 Bob unless you stick to low pressure handloads, which no one does.

The Chileans did rebarrel them to .308 Winchester, but you are trusting a 120 year old action to hold up. And you have ZERO knowledge of it's history along with evidence that Bubba had his greasy moron mitts on it. I know folks redo 96 and 98 Mauser actions into high pressure rifles, but those are different designs and an evolutionary step up from the 93/95 you have.

I'd put on a new 7mm Mauser barrel or 6.5 Swede barrel and enjoy it using low pressure factory ammo.

Jeremy

Appreciate the recap. What’s the 93/95, 96, 98 you mention? I’ve seen this all over when researching about this gun. Year manufactured? Are they just different styles of Mauser actions? How do you know which is which?

You said 46k max, but then listed 2 cartridges for a new barrel that are both 51k SAAMI spec. This may be a dumb question, but is factory not loaded to full pressure? Do they take off x% in safety making a 51k max shoot closer to high 40’s?

Thanks again for your response

 

[Wapiti1]

Appreciate the recap. What’s the 93/95, 96, 98 you mention? I’ve seen this all over when researching about this gun. Year manufactured? Are they just different styles of Mauser actions? How do you know which is which?

You said 46k max, but then listed 2 cartridges for a new barrel that are both 51k SAAMI spec. This may be a dumb question, but is factory not loaded to full pressure? Do they take off x% in safety making a 51k max shoot closer to high 40’s?

Thanks again for your response

The numbers are the models of Mauser actions made over the years. They start at 71/84, 88, 89, 91, 92, 93/95, 96 and 98 (not an all inclusive list). This is shorthand for the year they were put into production/developed, i.e. 1889, 1891, etc. There are even more of each in different variations, like a Mexican Mauser which is a variation of the 98. Suffice to say, there are a lot of them. Each was made for a specific country's military at the time, for the most part, so they were designed for the cartridge that country used. Generally speaking, the 71/84, 88, 89, 91, and 92 are black powder, or low pressure smokeless actions, like 35ksi pressure. They are rarely found as customs. Occasionally, you'll see one in something like 45/70.

The 93 and 95 are very similar. The 93 has a little different bolt, but the action reciever is pretty much the same. The 95 was a small change for Spain and later Chile. With the Spanish 95 being even a little different than the Chile version (3rd safety lug, gas port on some Spanish).

So, each is an evolutionary design step as we transitioned from black powder to cordite and finally to nitrocelulose smokeless. Each step had to deal with different pressures, and different safety concerns. Early actions don't really manage gas from a blown case or pierced primer because the pressure was so low, it wasn't a concern. Later designs started to incorporate those features with all of them culminating in the 98 Mauser.

As for the pressures, what I quoted were what the original cartridges were close to for pressure in CUP. CUP is not one to one with PSI. 46k CUP is about 51ksi. Sticking to factory or original loads for the 7mm or 6.5 would be safe.

What you don't want is a 60ksi cartridge in there.

Can the action take it? Yes, it probably will. But not for a long time before set back of the lugs happens, and then bad things will happen.

Of the actions above, only the 96 (commonly called the Swede) and 98 are suitable for high pressure cartridges. The 98 can take magnums, but the 96 is only suitable for 60ksi 30-06, .308 bolt face cartridges. Now there is debate on the 96 being suitable for 60ksi, and a lot of debate on suitability for the .270 Win (65ksi). But, there are a lot of conversions out there in these cartridges on the 96, or a 96 derivative (Husqvarna) that are doing fine.

Jeremy

 

[Mtnmilsurp]

The 46k is SAAMI maximum pressure in Copper Units of Pressure (CUP) which classy old cartridges like the 6.5x55 were spec’d in.

The 51k is SAAMI maximum pressure in Pounds per Square Inch, which newfangled faddish cartridges like 7PRC, 6.5CM, and .308 are spec’d in.

46k CUP is roughly the same as 51k PSI.

If you look at 6.5x55 loads on Hodgdon’s website or elsewhere you see a mix of loads measured in PSI and CUP. The numbers in CUP top out around 46k and those in PSI top out around 51k (SAAMI) or 55k (CIP).

 

[tater]

The debate over the safety of rebarreling non M98 actions in various cartridges has been going on a long time.

I remember sitting and watching two of my mentors that had been some places and done some things and built some fine rifles discuss this very topic for an hour. I respected both of those riflemen (now long gone), and as a result my M38 that i have had since i was 12 is still in 6.5x55 and shoots only low pressure loads.

Find a good smith and have a conversation with him.

 

[Maki35]

Bubba's franken gun. The indent channel on the handguard has me thinking it was Swedish Mauser stock that was sporterized with a DYI scribed caliber on the barrel and a German receiver (German markings). The bolt handle was probably straight at one point, and someone cut & welded a turn down bolt handle to your rifle.
There was probably a crest stamped on the top of the receiver, but someone cut into it to mount the scope base.

 

[Hschweers]

I can’t find any smiths in the middle Tennessee area that seem to do full rebuild work, just your typical AR work. I guess I’ll have to send it off to someone and have em evaluate the action before I commit any cost. Ideally they’ll approve it for a 257, but if not 6.5x55 will have to do

 

[Wapiti1]

I can’t find any smiths in the middle Tennessee area that seem to do full rebuild work, just your typical AR work. I guess I’ll have to send it off to someone and have em evaluate the action before I commit any cost. Ideally they’ll approve it for a 257, but if not 6.5x55 will have to do

Just accept that your action is not suitable. It is a low pressure action that lacks both the metal and features to manage high pressure cartridges. Of the military Mauser actions, only the 96 (debatable) and 98 are high pressure suitable.

Besides in the condition yours is in, I wouldn't touch it as a gunsmith. Too many Bubba features for me to put my name on it. It would need several hundred dollars in work for me to consider it usable. I would surface grind it to square it, polish it, and send it to be heat treated (re-case carburized). That is roughly $500 in work and we haven't looked at a barrel, trigger, or stock yet. And I would only consider low pressure cartridges. Of which, the 6.5 Swede is a sleeper.

Jeremy

 

[Hschweers]

I’ve found quite a few posts on forums around the internet about 95 Chileans converted to 257. If you stay with standard loading (not +p) I’m finding the original 257 was 45k cup. I don’t disagree that the action/bolt might need some work to restore to original, safe strength, but I don’t see why 6.5x55 would be acceptable and 257 (not +p) is too much

 

[Wapiti1]

I’ve found quite a few posts on forums around the internet about 95 Chileans converted to 257. If you stay with standard loading (not +p) I’m finding the original 257 was 45k cup. I don’t disagree that the action/bolt might need some work to restore to original, safe strength, but I don’t see why 6.5x55 would be acceptable and 257 (not +p) is too much

Simply because the +P loads are very common in .257. You are correct that a standard loaded .257 Bob is within the pressure range. However, it's actually hard to find non +P .257 Bob. Remington green box is the only common one I know of making non +P.

There is nothing to stop one from loading +P in the chamber. That concern doesn't exist with the other options with factory ammo. I'm looking at this as a gunsmith that doesn't want to introduce a liability issue.

Jeremy

 

[6.5 Sweedaddict]

I've owned several of the Swedish Mausers made my Carl Gustaf and also Husquavarna. All have 6.5x55 markings on them and they are 6.5 Swedish Mausers. Many countries made their own version of the Mauser in various calibers including Germany, Spain, Chili and Belgium. Germany's K98 probably the most sought after action due to its strength is still used today by some to build custom guns.