Another which pack thread... SG vs Exo vs Kuiu

[JeffRaines]

As the title states I'm considering a new pack. I currently have a Kuiu ultra and while it's been okay, its just been okay. The hip belt is slipping so... It would probably make a great backpacking pack but I already have one for that purpose...

I adhere to more ultralight principles as I was into backpacking before hunting. My camp weighs around 12 pounds not counting hunting items. With that said, weight and comfort are top concerns. I was originally set on the SG Sky 5100 but then seen Exos very similar offerings... Now I'm confused. Which carries weight better? Which one has more comfortable hip belts/straps?

What would you do?

 

[LBFowler]

And I'm sure you are going to hear about more options yet from this thread...and 10 different opinions from 5 different people. Kifaru and Seek Outside are the other two big names to round out the top 5, but I'm sure someone will chime in with option number 6 and 7.

Body type seems to affect which pack works best for you but I haven't found direct correlation. Bag preferences are easier to discuss and probably distract from the issue more then anything.

At what weight does the Kuiu start to slip?

 

[JeffRaines]

And I'm sure you are going to hear about more options yet from this thread...and 10 different opinions from 5 different people. Kifaru and Seek Outside are the other two big names to round out the top 5, but I'm sure someone will chime in with option number 6 and 7.

Body type seems to affect which pack works best for you but I haven't found direct correlation. Bag preferences are easier to discuss and probably distract from the issue more then anything.

At what weight does the Kuiu start to slip?

Scouting weights sadly.

 

[hammer0419]

Definitely Exo or SG. Stayaway from Kuiu

 

[mfolch]

I'm also serious about keeping weight ultralight, and I've been very happy with SG. Their approach to pack-building appeals to my own gram-counting philosophy, and their frame is super minimalist. I use a dry bag and krux frame combo (called the minimalist) for hiking and backpacking. At under 3lbs, it's almost as light a genuine ultralight backpack (weighs less than a pound more than a ula ohm), but with serious weight-bearing potential. I have a curved back and no hips, so slipping is always an issue for me. I spoke a half-dozen times with Kurt and he sent me various hip belt configurations until we found the one that works best. I have no experience with exo, returned the two kuiu frames I tried--so far, SG is the pack I feel goes toe to toe with kifaru (whose approach to pack-building is just totally different).

 

[FreeRange]

I was in your same place a few months ago. After packing out 5 deer last year with my Kuiu ultra, I sold it and got a SG minimalist this spring. For me the kuiu is fine for scouting and backpacking, but NOT for packing meat. Price, but mostly weight sold me on the Kuiu in my naivety, a bit more research would have saved me that mistake. The SG is the perfect execution of the ultralight, load capable pack. I was blown away when I first put 110lbs in the SG, I finally understood what a good pack was supposed to feel like.

For the time being if I need more than the minimalist I'll run my ultra 3000 bag on the Krux frame, it's not as much of a franken pack as some would lead you to believe. If you have the ability to sew in larger stay pockets it would be even better. I had two Kuiu bags so was able to keep one and sell the other and save a significant amount of $$$ not having to buy a Solo bag up front.

 

[twall13]

Both EXO and SG will carry weight well. SG will probably be a bit lighter but the EXO packs are still light and to me have the perfect amount of organization while maintaining low weight. When I was deciding between SG and EXO that extra organization is what made the difference for me. Decide what works for you and your packing style and go from there. Honestly both EXO and SG are great companies.

 

[JeffRaines]

I was in your same place a few months ago. After packing out 5 deer last year with my Kuiu ultra, I sold it and got a SG minimalist this spring. For me the kuiu is fine for scouting and backpacking, but NOT for packing meat. Price, but mostly weight sold me on the Kuiu in my naivety, a bit more research would have saved me that mistake. The SG is the perfect execution of the ultralight, load capable pack. I was blown away when I first put 110lbs in the SG, I finally understood what a good pack was supposed to feel like.

For the time being if I need more than the minimalist I'll run my ultra 3000 bag on the Krux frame, it's not as much of a franken pack as some would lead you to believe. If you have the ability to sew in larger stay pockets it would be even better. I had two Kuiu bags so was able to keep one and sell the other and save a significant amount of $$$ not having to buy a Solo bag up front.

Before I bought this pack I actually did a good amount of research on it, and while there were definitely some mixed reviews most seemed good. The kicker is it wouldn't be a bad pack save for the belt slippage. I just have the small bag now and carry optics/water/jacket/snacks(typical scouting load out) and if its already doing it, whats it going to do with camp? or camp plus an animal?

I know there are other options out there aside from SG and Exo but as I mentioned they seemed to be the most in line with my ideals of camp/hunt. I can't see getting something from MR thats 6+ pounds for the smallest. Kifaru, while I'm sure they make excellent packs, seem to be too heavy too. I know its only a pound or two, but it adds up fast.

 

[Mtslackcountry]

I have the sky 5100. In the bivy mode it packs down tiny for day hunts. I slide my camelback down into the load shelf between the pack and frame. The rifle sling they sell is a thing of beauty for carrying your gun and being able to get it free for a shot in a less than 5 seconds. I have used it for multi day back pack trips and used just their see thru camp pocket to organize small stuff as well as a large hip pocket. The design of the straps hold a bow nice and high and secure when mountain biking into spots.

I have only had it for a year and have packed out 2 antelope, 2 cows and 1 bull. I have had it up to 110-120lbs. It carrys extremely well with that load shelf the weight is secure and tighg and high to the pack. The frame is very customizable and from the sounds of it Kurt will work with you on the belt until its perfect.

This is a one and done pack. Watch some of Kurts videos, they really show well how the features and accessories of the packs work. Its a ton of money to spend but for me it was well worth it and is prob my top piece of equipment I own.

The exo seems like a good pack and is a little cheaper but I think its a 1 lb heavier and Im not sure if they have a load shelf and a gun sling. Could be wrong tho. As far a kifuru goes I didn't like the weight and was very overwhelmed by all the options of frames and packs and really wanted a load shelf so meet would not be mixed in with gear. If I was closer to their headquarters and could see and try on the million options they have I might of ended up with one but that wasn't an option. The SG pack was just simpler for me.

 

[JeffRaines]

I have the sky 5100. In the bivy mode it packs down tiny for day hunts. I slide my camelback down into the load shelf between the pack and frame. The rifle sling they sell is a thing of beauty for carrying your gun and being able to get it free for a shot in a less than 5 seconds. I have used it for multi day back pack trips and used just their see thru camp pocket to organize small stuff as well as a large hip pocket. The design of the straps hold a bow nice and high and secure when mountain biking into spots.

I have only had it for a year and have packed out 2 antelope, 2 cows and 1 bull. I have had it up to 110-120lbs. It carrys extremely well with that load shelf the weight is secure and tighg and high to the pack. The frame is very customizable and from the sounds of it Kurt will work with you on the belt until its perfect.

This is a one and done pack. Watch some of Kurts videos, they really show well how the features and accessories of the packs work. Its a ton of money to spend but for me it was well worth it and is prob my top piece of equipment I own.

The exo seems like a good pack and is a little cheaper but I think its a 1 lb heavier and Im not sure if they have a load shelf and a gun sling. Could be wrong tho. As far a kifuru goes I didn't like the weight and was very overwhelmed by all the options of frames and packs and really wanted a load shelf so meet would not be mixed in with gear. If I was closer to their headquarters and could see and try on the million options they have I might of ended up with one but that wasn't an option. The SG pack was just simpler for me.

Thats exactly what I was thinking with the 5100 as well. I think I could make the bivy mode work for most of my hunting, even backpack hunting(for 5 days or less of course) and I would have the option of expanding it to 5100 if I ever needed to.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

I wouldn't rule out kifaru based on weight considering they do a UL frame. That said, everyone has given you spot on advice really. The SG is flat panel for the frame, and they use foam to compensate for your back shape. That may or may not work for you.

No matter what I think part of it is just your preference - SG minimalism with lowest weight or Exo lightweight + organization.

If I were buying a pack for that much, I'd buy them both, load them up, and return the one that didn't do it for you.

Based on your comments and sensitivity to weight, I'd go SG and call it a day


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[eagle#eyes]

I've been looking at new packs as well, but without being able to handle them, or afford buying them all to try, is 1 or 2 lbs in a pack really going to make a noticeable difference since they all, especially the kifaru, can carry weight so well? I realize in the back country lbs can add up quick but if an 80lb pack fits right, is it going to be that much easier to carry 79lbs because the pack was 1lb lighter? I realize fit and personal preference make a difference, just a back pack noob thinking out loud and looking for advice

 

[doverpack12]

If the belt is slipping that bad then either some adjustments are wrong or you are going to fight slippage on every pack and likely require some custom fitting. Before you spend more money I would go through all adjustments to see if you can improve the fit. Certainly sounds like you have done plenty of packing so not trying to criticize.

Try loosening up the Velcro straps on the outside of the hip belt so you are pulling tight through the belt foam and not that outer strap. Loosen the stabilizer straps from the bag to belt. Try adding the extra foam in the lumbar or taking both foam pieces out. What you learn from these adjustments could help you a lot with whichever pack you choose. I will say the icon pro is a significant upgrade from the ultra belt but it's going to slip as well if the ultra does. To me the EXO bag drove me nuts for day hunting and being In and out of the bag a lot. I ran it for two years and have gone back to KUIU icon pro 3200. I like everything about stone glacier except the frame will barrel out some with a big load that is roundish and the compression straps smash everything in your bag to hold the load tight enough if packing heavy. The EXO has two straps just to hold the load to the frame. I have rigged up several icon pro and ultra frames to be like the 2013 icon with a center strap just to hold the load to the frame. In my opinion if you plan to utilize the load shelf both the EXO and icon pro are better options. None of that matters if the pack slips though so figure out the fit and why it is slipping first.

 

[Viper]

I went from Eberlestock to the Outdoorsman pack to Kuiu Icon Pro 3200. I like the light weight of it, the narrow profile and the fit. I wasn't sure I would like the large lumbar pad, but it really helps hold the rig in place. Half of the lumbar pad has a silicone surface, which helps as well. Other packs slide over my skinny hips. I haven't tried it with more than 35lbs, so 50lbs may be a different story.

 

[mfolch]

Not to derail the thread and reargue the case for going ultralight, but I think 2lbs can make a meaningful difference. And if the comparison is between a SG Sky and a kifaru pack and frame of comparable size and similar organization, then the difference might actually be more than that when you add in hip belt, lid, and side pockets.

Unless you're very disciplined, it's easy to accumulate a surprising amount of weight. A pound or two here in the pack, another in the sleeping bag, eight ounces for the sleeping pad, a couple pounds extra for the tent, throw in an extra set of batteries and some extra ammo, how about another rifle just in case your main one fails, etc. And before you know it, your bag is full of stuff you'll never use, and it will weigh so much that it slows you down and holds you back--stuff you'll end up replacing because carrying it all is so tiring--and you won't have room for the extra things that matter. If your base weight is 12lbs the possibility of finding somewhere to cut two pounds from your pack is almost impossible--and two pounds is another day of food, another day of hunting, another day of opportunity (not to mention how much lighter it feels after three or four days of lugging a pack up and down mountainsides for fifteen hours a day). So, for me, if I can reduce the starting weight of my pack by two pounds, it's seriously worth considering.

All that said, I have three kifaru packs (none of them ultralight) and one stone glacier (so far) and I cannot imagine giving any of them up.


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[JeffRaines]

Not to derail the thread and reargue the case for going ultralight, but I think 2lbs can make a meaningful difference. And if the comparison is between a SG Sky and a kifaru pack and frame of comparable size and similar organization, then the difference might actually be more than that when you add in hip belt, lid, and side pockets.

Unless you're very disciplined, it's easy to accumulate a surprising amount of weight. A pound or two here in the pack, another in the sleeping bag, eight ounces for the sleeping pad, a couple pounds extra for the tent, throw in an extra set of batteries and some extra ammo, how about another rifle just in case your main one fails, etc. And before you know it, your bag is full of stuff you'll never use, and it will weigh so much that it slows you down and holds you back--stuff you'll end up replacing because carrying it all is so tiring--and you won't have room for the extra things that matter. If your base weight is 12lbs the possibility of finding somewhere to cut two pounds from your pack is almost impossible--and two pounds is another day of food, another day of hunting, another day of opportunity (not to mention how much lighter it feels after three or four days of lugging a pack up and down mountainsides for fifteen hours a day). So, for me, if I can reduce the starting weight of my pack by two pounds, it's seriously worth considering.

All that said, I have three kifaru packs (none of them ultralight) and one stone glacier (so far) and I cannot imagine giving any of them up.


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My philosophy as well. I've even toyed with the idea of switching to a quilt over a bag due to the ~12 oz of weight savings I'll have but I'm not sure how I'd sleep especially when the temps go down as they often do in September. With that said, even a 4 pound pack to me is a lot heavier than I'd like, but I understand that to carry the added weight of the kill kit/weapon/optics and ultimately an animal it's probably as light as it's going to get.

 

[LBFowler]

If the belt is slipping that bad then either some adjustments are wrong or you are going to fight slippage on every pack and likely require some custom fitting. Before you spend more money I would go through all adjustments to see if you can improve the fit. Certainly sounds like you have done plenty of packing so not trying to criticize.

Possibly, but not necessarily. There seems to be a pretty clear split between people that can use packs with big lumbar pads and those that can't. For me personally, less lumbar pad nearly always=less slippage. for other body types I'm sure it is different.

between Exo and SG, my vote is certainly for SG.

 

[kpk]

I have the sky 5100. In the bivy mode it packs down tiny for day hunts. I slide my camelback down into the load shelf between the pack and frame. The rifle sling they sell is a thing of beauty for carrying your gun and being able to get it free for a shot in a less than 5 seconds. I have used it for multi day back pack trips and used just their see thru camp pocket to organize small stuff as well as a large hip pocket. The design of the straps hold a bow nice and high and secure when mountain biking into spots.

I have only had it for a year and have packed out 2 antelope, 2 cows and 1 bull. I have had it up to 110-120lbs. It carrys extremely well with that load shelf the weight is secure and tighg and high to the pack. The frame is very customizable and from the sounds of it Kurt will work with you on the belt until its perfect.

This is a one and done pack. Watch some of Kurts videos, they really show well how the features and accessories of the packs work. Its a ton of money to spend but for me it was well worth it and is prob my top piece of equipment I own.

The exo seems like a good pack and is a little cheaper but I think its a 1 lb heavier and Im not sure if they have a load shelf and a gun sling. Could be wrong tho. As far a kifuru goes I didn't like the weight and was very overwhelmed by all the options of frames and packs and really wanted a load shelf so meet would not be mixed in with gear. If I was closer to their headquarters and could see and try on the million options they have I might of ended up with one but that wasn't an option. The SG pack was just simpler for me.

I agree with all of this. I can easily carry everything for a trip when the bag is blown out. Unload camp and then go into daypack mode, it's really convenient for a "do all pack". I don't have much experience with packs and was torn between kifaru and SG, and went back and forth for a long time and asked tons of questions to everyone that'd give me the time of day. In the end I went with the SG because it was more of a minimalist type pack. The only problem I had was training with 80ish plus pounds the pack would start to slip down by back. I called SG and they had another piece of foam to put into the lumbar pad at my door in like 2 days. That fixed the slipping down problem and I can comfortably carry far more weight on flat ground than I'd ever feel safe trying to come down a mountain with. I've never had any discomfort with the pack.

One thing if for sure if you go with a SG or Kifaru the customer service is excellent, and they'll take care of ya. I'm sure EXO is the same, but I haven't dealt with them.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

My philosophy as well. I've even toyed with the idea of switching to a quilt over a bag due to the ~12 oz of weight savings I'll have but I'm not sure how I'd sleep especially when the temps go down as they often do in September. With that said, even a 4 pound pack to me is a lot heavier than I'd like, but I understand that to carry the added weight of the kill kit/weapon/optics and ultimately an animal it's probably as light as it's going to get.

Since it's your thread I'll comment on the quilt thing - I've been using a Sierra designs backcountry quilt for a couple years, have had it down to 20F. It's totally doable in late September cold spells, but moving (thus some untucking) kind of sucks for a minute. I love having the hood on it. My point being, if you are really trying to cut weight, quilts are awesome.

I'll also say, while packing my whole boned deer out for 3 hours last year, I 100% subscribed to the theory a pound for extra comfort was TOTALLY worth it......I got pretty beat down doing that solo, and my backpack was everything for getting that done. If you are ultimately concerned with weight of the pack empty as a major selection criteria, it's really, really hard to beat SG for that, the functional minimalism they pull off is great.

 

[Darren Best]

The belt/frame and bag are two separate issues.

If your gut is bigger than your ass, then belt slippage will be a problem no matter what decal is on the pack.

If your are skinny, then get some squats, deadlights and kettlebell swings under your belt to build your ass up to hold up your pants.

Proper fit is absolutely paramount, Kurt from Stone Glacier has some great videos on YouTube on pack fit.

If you have solved those three problems and still get belt slippage, then you are just going to have to try different packs on until you solve the problem.