Angle cosine indicator?

[dotman]

Is this really needed if your range finder has the angle comp calculation built in? I'm assuming that if your rangefinder has this ability that inputting this calc into a ballistic calc like shooter will mess up the actual range needed to be dialed. I'm thinking this is a given but thought I would ask the experts anyway.

 

[land cruiser]

I have one on my scope and one in my rangefinder. But I also have my Kestrel despite the fact that my rangefinder has a built-in ballistic calculator.

If you use shooter I would go without the EHR and put in angle and actual distance. As usual, practice a lot to see what works best for you.

 

[mtnclimber]

i prefer to use my angle indicator and my leica 1000b with the EHR off. Using my shooter app to calculate the true distance. A friend showed me why it was slightly more accurate.

 

[dotman]

That is another option as I do have the option of turning off the angle comp. I'm assuming you feel the ACI is more accurate? Do you do this just to remove one more electronic calc or have you noticed from experience one is more accurate then the other? I guess you really aren't removing an electronic calc as shooter is figuring it out but you know what I mean.

My problem is I live in flat ass Kansas and no way to truly practice it but once maybe twice a year when out on non hunting trips to CO. I have access to a range that is further then my setup can kill effiecently so practicing longe rang isn't an issue, extreme angle will be impossible to really practice with only a few ops a year.

I have the Vortex Ranger rangefinder, so maybe the slight error it may create would be worth using the ACI?

 

[mtnclimber]

He showed me by using a mathematical equation that was way over my head why its more accurate.

With Long range shooting and reloading there are SO many variables. All depends on how far you wanna shoot, how accurate you wanna be.

Honestly, you probably won't be effected by using your EHR function in a hunting sense. But i just choose to use my more difficult way just to nock out (in my mind) an extra variable.

Hopefully my rambling makes sense. the long range hunting forum would be the place for a question like this. Im just a novice compared to those guys.

 

[dotman]

Thanks that is what keeps me wondering and makes perfect sense. I thought I posted this in the LR forum?

 

[mtnclimber]

Thanks that is what keeps me wondering and makes perfect sense. I thought I posted this in the LR forum?

I meant longrangehunting.com

 

[dotman]

Yeah, did a search there and pretty much it is 50/50, old school guys use the ACI and the others just use the rangefinders angle comp. So I guess I'll just start out using my rangefinder and see how it works, those ACI's aren't cheap.

 

[mtnclimber]

another benefit of an aci is if your rangefinder poops out (which has happened to me) you can do mental math or a mini credit card sized solar pocket calculator to get your exact range.

If you buy an aci or adi and decided you don't won't it you won't take too much of a loss if you decide to sell.

 

[GLB]

I have my range finder set up to calculate the corrected distance based off the angle. I also carry a protractor and a cosine chart as a backup.

 

[squeekieslayer]

do most of you guys that run non-balistic calculating rangefinders just use them to shoot the uncorrected distance and use the program? I was going to get the leica and dont want to shoehorn the balistics so I plan to just run it as a measured distance. Does the leica 1600 still tell you the angle when you are not using the internal calculator?

Joe

 

[mtnclimber]

do most of you guys that run non-balistic calculating rangefinders just use them to shoot the uncorrected distance and use the program? I was going to get the leica and dont want to shoehorn the balistics so I plan to just run it as a measured distance. Does the leica 1600 still tell you the angle when you are not using the internal calculator?

Joe

Do you mean can you turn the EHR off and on, on the leica? if thats your question, the answer is yes.

 

[dotman]

Not sure on the Leica and I don't even remember on my vortex but I do not think it gives you the angle. Maybe I read your question wrong but I plan to leave the look angle in my calculator (shooter) at 0* and then let my rangefinder give me the compensated range. I can't remember if the vortex gives you both yardages but my old bushnell would tell me the corrected yardage and the actual at the same time.

 

[mtnclimber]

I believe my Leica 1000b does display the angle.

 

[squeekieslayer]

yes essentially that was my question... if you can use the leica to do just the uncorrected distance and still see the angle.

I have the ACI on mine, but will move it to the new one and dont think Ill put on on the old one. I think that between the rangefinder and the app, I will get an accurate idea anyway.

Joe

 

[Sam Millard]

Not sure on the Leica and I don't even remember on my vortex but I do not think it gives you the angle. Maybe I read your question wrong but I plan to leave the look angle in my calculator (shooter) at 0* and then let my rangefinder give me the compensated range. I can't remember if the vortex gives you both yardages but my old bushnell would tell me the corrected yardage and the actual at the same time.

That is a bad habit that will bite you eventually. Just because gravity doesn't work the same on the bullet at an angle, doesn't mean air resistance doesn't. The bullet is still traveling the "true" distance, and has to push through that extra air. It might not seem like a lot, but a 300 grain SMK, fired at 1000 yards with a 20 degree angle (~.94 cosine) requires 1 MOA more elevation than the same bullet fired 940 yards @ "0" degrees. The difference between degrees and cosine, as far as accuracy, has been debated, but I doubt the average long range shooter could tell the difference. Most programs use degrees as the input, but Exbal uses cosine, and Exbal/Bulletflight match up perfectly for me. I assume the programs with degree inputs are converted to cosine in the program anyway?

 

[Sam Millard]

do most of you guys that run non-balistic calculating rangefinders just use them to shoot the uncorrected distance and use the program? I was going to get the leica and dont want to shoehorn the balistics so I plan to just run it as a measured distance. Does the leica 1600 still tell you the angle when you are not using the internal calculator?

Joe

You can run the 1600-B with the EHR or turn it off. I leave mine off. The front button will display angle, temp, and station pressure. It works quite well!

 

[dotman]

That is a bad habit that will bite you eventually. Just because gravity doesn't work the same on the bullet at an angle, doesn't mean air resistance doesn't. The bullet is still traveling the "true" distance, and has to push through that extra air. It might not seem like a lot, but a 300 grain SMK, fired at 1000 yards with a 20 degree angle (~.94 cosine) requires 1 MOA more elevation than the same bullet fired 940 yards @ "0" degrees. The difference between degrees and cosine, as far as accuracy, has been debated, but I doubt the average long range shooter could tell the difference. Most programs use degrees as the input, but Exbal uses cosine, and Exbal/Bulletflight match up perfectly for me. I assume the programs with degree inputs are converted to cosine in the program anyway?

Thanks, that's why I asked this, to get some good input as I'm new to this. So this is the reason to use cosine and actual yardage. Does the shooter app calculate these differences better or the same as a rangefinder? I'm gonna guess by taking the altitude and baro into consideration it makes for more accurate calc? Great now I'm back to the ACI

 

[Sam Millard]

Shooter has an arrow next to "Look angle" when you have it open. If you press the arrow, place your phone on the ocular of your scope while pointing at the target, and press "hold", it will automatically apply the angle to the solution.

 

[dotman]

Shooter has an arrow next to "Look angle" when you have it open. If you press the arrow, place your phone on the ocular of your scope while pointing at the target, and press "hold", it will automatically apply the angle to the solution.

Wow, I missed that feature, thanks!