American Prairie loses grazing rights

[WRO]

One thing I forget to mention in that post. Why all this talk about cows ruining public lands but no mention of shitters (feral horses)? Are you all anti cow but pro mustang?

I don’t know anyone who’s pro shitter, shoot everyone of them dirty inbred feral pieces of shit.


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[Sandhills]

What does my lack of skill at cow identification have to do with this discussion?


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You said that public land cattle don't feed many people. I suppose your right as there are more private land cattle than public range cattle. But they all go to the same feed lot and can't tell the difference in the pen or when it's cooking on a grill.

 

[Sandhills]

I don’t know anyone who’s pro shitter, shoot everyone of them dirty inbred feral pieces of shit.


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I know plenty of people who are pro shitter. Horse humpers rate about like wolf humpers in my book. Buffalo shit rates higher than em both

 

[Sandhills]

Im from Oregon, so as someone from a very feral horse loving state. Shoot all those sumbitches.

Amen. If I ever come across Wild Horse Annie's grave what i leave on it won't pass for flowers.

 

[Marbles]

Which facts are you disputing? Blanket statements are worthless…

You can reread the thread.

There is a thing called context, and trying to strip it away is a tactic used by con men. The alternative is to assume some lacks the mental faculties to keep context in mind.

Also, you should look up the definition of blanket statement, because you are using it incorrectly.

 

[WRO]

So all the old timers I grew up around who remember when the woods were logged and had more cattle and sheep in them are wrong when they say there was less fires and more game? Not to mention the schools were funded better because of timber receipt money?
Same goes for the folks from the Great Basin I know that say the heyday for mule deer and sage hens in modern history was when there were more cattle and sheep in public allotments? They're all liars?

They also ran piles of strychnine, m80, etc killing every raven, coyote, eagle, bobcat etc out there.

When I was a kid in the early 80s helping on my grandpas ranch coyotes were a rare citing, now you can’t go out without seeing them.

The whole less fire thing is a farce, we’ve had fires since the start of time, it’s just bigger in the news because of the climate change narrative.

The biggest year of fires was 1939.


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[PLhunter]

So all the old timers I grew up around who remember when the woods were logged and had more cattle and sheep in them are wrong when they say there was less fires and more game? Not to mention the schools were funded better because of timber receipt money?
Same goes for the folks from the Great Basin I know that say the heyday for mule deer and sage hens in modern history was when there were more cattle and sheep in public allotments? They're all liars?

They may not be wrong for that area. But giving those three options as absolutes ignores a whole heck of a lot of areas where those three absolutes aren’t true. There are a few hundred variables outside of just grazing that are different from back then. Having hunted where there are sheep I’m 100% positive it wasn’t the sheep making the deer grow. Correlation is not causation. For one there are more than a 100 million more leading causes for fire ignitions today than back then. You’re getting off track here and posting antidotes to frame a strawman.

 

[WRO]

I know plenty of people who are pro shitter. Horse humpers rate about like wolf humpers in my book. Buffalo shit rates higher than em both

I misread that, sorry for the earlier response.

 

[PLhunter]

One thing I forget to mention in that post. Why all this talk about cows ruining public lands but no mention of shitters (feral horses)? Are you all anti cow but pro mustang?

Nope, this whole thing is Bison being allowed to graze on public land in lieu of cows on a tiny fraction of a fraction of a percent of public lands.

Your logic is broken across the board. It’s a common logical fallacy to do the jump you just did to the horse thing.

 

[Sandhills]

Thank you, you for proving my point.

Giving up even a little to have restoration is too much in your mind because cattle rule and everything else drools.

As for where my steaks come from, most of them right now are wild sourced.

I don't think "cattle rule and everything else drools". I'd love to see mule deer, sage hens and the like return to historic highs.

But the reintroduction of wolves to the lower 48 was idiotic and the attacks on predator management are just as much so. The protect the wolf crowd and the save the mustang crowd are often times cut from the same cloth.


On second thought, y'all changed my mind. Let's kick all private industry of public lands, let's turn buffalo out from Iowa to Idaho and plant wolves grizzlies, mountain lions and jaguars in every state that had em historically. Hell while were at it let's all head back to Europe or what ever continent your respective ancestors were from and give every thing back to the Indians. They do such a great job with what land they have now.

 

[WRO]

I don't think "cattle rule and everything else drools". I'd love to see mule deer, sage hens and the like return to historic highs.

But the reintroduction of wolves to the lower 48 was idiotic and the attacks on predator management are just as much so. The protect the wolf crowd and the save the mustang crowd are often times cut from the same cloth.


On second thought, y'all changed my mind. Let's kick all private industry of public lands, let's turn buffalo out from Iowa to Idaho and plant wolves grizzlies, mountain lions and jaguars in every state that had em historically. Hell while were at it let's all head back to Europe or what ever continent your respective ancestors were from and give every thing back to the Indians. They do such a great job with what land they have now.

I misread understood your post earlier, please accept my apologies for reacting to quickly.


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[Sandhills]

I misread understood your post earlier, please accept my apologies for reacting to quickly.


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Apologies accepted sir. I reckon most of you on here are pretty decent folks that I wouldnt mind sharing a beer with or putting the sneak on a deer with. And I do admit that I may have got carried away on this thread. But the rancher bashing I'll never understand. Especially when the people I first heard bash ranchers were bashing hunters in the next breath. The anti hunting crowd is also the anti ranching crowd.

 

[Marbles]

Just some bisonomics from the state where I’m most familiar with wild bison, Utah. Just did some quick napkin math. Gila loves his money, loves it. Looking at the numbers Utahns and nonresidents spend about $1,538,000 on general hunting licenses and application fees just for a chance to hunt Bison. (A disgustingly high number) The lucky few who do then spend $107,420 on tag cost. Annually. This money goes to UDWR.

I want to make sure I have the math correct and am not misunderstanding.

You are saying bison in Utah generate $1.6 million of direct revenue to the state government. Bison look to occupy about 1.2 million acres with about 1,300 animals.

In 2025 in Utah BLM had grazing allotments on about 22 million acres covering 1.3 million AUMs and supporting approximately 800,000 cattle. Thus generating $2.2 million in direct revenue to the federal government at $1.69 per AUM.

It is hard to compare economic revenue as I did not find data that breaks hunting revenue down by species for the state.

BLM grazing permits generated an estimated $159 million of economic revenue and supported 2,730 jobs.

A Sound Investment for America 2025 | Bureau of Land Management

As steward for approximately 245 million acres of America’s public lands, the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) manages some of the nation’s most historic and scenic landscapes, as well as vast natural resources, for the benefit of all Americans. These public lands include rangelands, forests...

www.blm.gov

All hunting in Utah supported 12,700 jobs and generated a total economic revenue of $860 million (more or less depending on what one includes). https://huntingworksforut.com/economic-data/

Alternatively, PEW estimates in Utah in 2016 BLM wildlife based recreation (hunting, fishing, wildlife viewing) supported 840 jobs, and generated $146 million (adjusted for inflation, 197 million in 12/2025 dollars) in revenue. Hard to draw conclusions from data sets 9 years apart. https://www.pew.org/en/research-and...ng-fishing-and-wildlife-watching-on-blm-lands

I think it is safe to say hunting on public lands generates more economic value than grazing on public land in Utah (and probably all of the West).

 

[PLhunter]

On second thought, y'all changed my mind. Let's kick all private industry of public lands, let's turn buffalo out from Iowa to Idaho and plant wolves grizzlies, mountain lions and jaguars in every state that had em historically. Hell while were at it let's all head back to Europe or what ever continent your respective ancestors were from and give every thing back to the Indians. They do such a great job with what land they have now.

Apologies accepted sir. I reckon most of you on here are pretty decent folks that I wouldnt mind sharing a beer with or putting the sneak on a deer with. And I do admit that I may have got carried away on this thread. But the rancher bashing I'll never understand. Especially when the people I first heard bash ranchers were bashing hunters in the next breath. The anti hunting crowd is also the anti ranching crowd.

We’re bashing the specifics of some/many ranchers on public lands and the artificial exclusivity they have to the resource. You’ve been creating straw men out of us and inserting positions and opinions we just don’t have.

Being A-okay with more wildlife and a new style of land manager that by most accounts is doing a good job taking care of the land we share doesn’t make us extremist. Too much guilt by association logical fallacy going on here.

 

[WRO]

Apologies accepted sir. I reckon most of you on here are pretty decent folks that I wouldnt mind sharing a beer with or putting the sneak on a deer with. And I do admit that I may have got carried away on this thread. But the rancher bashing I'll never understand. Especially when the people I first heard bash ranchers were bashing hunters in the next breath. The anti hunting crowd is also the anti ranching crowd.

Anytime, I’ll buy you two.

I grew up with a grandpa that ranched, a lot of my close friends ranch, I guide on ranches, etc. I don’t have an issue with ranchers as a whole by any stretch.

My issues with this situation and what we’re dealing with locally are symptomatic of what’s being dealt with in other places across the west.

I think there’s room for all of us on our public land, there just needs to be some balance.

 

[Sandhills]

We’re bashing the specifics of some/many ranchers on public lands and the artificial exclusivity they have to the resource. You’ve been creating straw men out of us and inserting positions and opinions we just don’t have.

Being A -okay with more wildlife and a new style of land manager that by most accounts is doing a good job taking care of the land we share doesn’t make us extremist. Too much guilt by association logical fallacy going on here.

I really got no issues with American prairie in and of itself. But I remain cautious of the people who back it.

As long as the buffalo they run are confirmed brucellosis free and don't bust fences on to private land I got no problems with em.

But I'm not gonna stand by and let the rancher bashing go on without responding to it.

 

[Sandhills]

Anytime, I’ll buy you two.

I grew up with a grandpa that ranched, a lot of my close friends ranch, I guide on ranches, etc. I don’t have an issue with ranchers as a whole by any stretch.

My issues with this situation and what we’re dealing with locally are symptomatic of what’s being dealt with in other places across the west.

I think there’s room for all of us on our public land, there just needs to be some balance.

I agree there's room for improvement. And I'll agree that allotments fees are probably too low.

If you find yourself in North Central Kansas I'll be happy to share a beverage with you

 

[IDVortex]

What in the actual heck. Is the internet not internetting today? Totally didnt see this turn out like it did.


Question, my Google algorithm doesnt help either. What is AUM? I cant for the life of me get what it stands for.

Sincerely some dude on the internet.

 

[Sandhills]

What in the actual heck. Is the internet not internetting today? Totally didnt see this turn out like it did.


Question, my Google algorithm doesnt help either. What is AUM? I cant for the life of me get what it stands for.

Sincerely some dude on the internet.

Animal unit month. Per federal grazing regulation, an AUM is one cow/calf pair, one horse, or five sheep or goats

 

[IDVortex]

Animal unit month. Per federal grazing regulation, an AUM is one cow/calf pair, one horse, or five sheep or goats

Awesome, thank you.