American Prairie loses grazing rights

[PLhunter]

Hunters talk a great game but it seems we continue to get farther and farther away from being stewards of the land, and it’s turned to a “how does this benefit me” not how dos this benefit the animals, ecosystem or landscape in general.

What’s worse is it’s not “how does it benefit me” it’s “how does it benefit this separate interest that doesn’t care about or benefit me at all.”

 

[Jpsmith1]

Wouldn’t that make them livestock by this logic and eligible to graze? Bison aren’t worth saving because they have some cattle DNA in them. Bison aren’t eligible to graze because they aren’t cows. Which is it?

Whichever is most convenient for the argument at the time.

 

[Jpsmith1]

What’s worse is it’s not “how does it benefit me” it’s “how does it benefit this separate interest that doesn’t care about or benefit me at all.”

I'm not even sure this covers it.

I've been trying to track a cohesive narrative in the anti-APR position and the best I can come up with is "It's new and different and I hate it"

The resistance to change, for good or bad, seems to embody so much of the hunting community.

My own state has just last year made Sunday hunting fully legal AND PEOPLE ARE CRYING ABOUT MORE DAYS TO HUNT.

It's not bison. It's not APR or anything like that.

It's fear of what's around the corner.

 

[B Harrison]

Public lands should be kept for the public use.

Private citizens, not corporations.

Non profit have no business in farming


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[CJ19]

I think you guys need to get down off your conservation high horses. There is a reason AP does not market their project in the fashion and tone you guys take. There is plenty of things to look at with the AP project and have legitimate questions or concerns about, even for those people that believe American Prairie has some or lots of public benefits.

 

[CJ19]

we can talk about subsidies all day, an their rightful use or not, but AP isn’t making money on this. Are they paying less than they would to expand their effective dollars compared to private land? Yes for sure. But the argument could be made, they are paying the AUM to make the habitat better and expand access overall, while from my understanding making basically zero dollars from the value of the animal. They do not rely on these subsidies to stay afloat or make a profit.

AP can’t just ban hunting on public lands, but lets for a second say they have a magic wand and could., and let’s take the extreme. If it’s for the betterment of the wildlife and the landscape then have at it. I would rather have 50 Yellowstone's, than 50 commercial cattle ranches if those were my only two choices. I would rather have wild places, with wild animals restored as close as we can after ruining it, then cattle roaming all over it

I think a lot of hunters have forgotten what being a “conservationist” is. It’s not about what the animal can do for you, it’s not about maximizing your personal and selfish opportunities.

Hunters talk a great game but it seems we continue to get farther and farther away from being stewards of the land, and it’s turned to a “how does this benefit me” not how dos this benefit the animals, ecosystem or landscape in general.

Not sure what happened, we used to hold wild places with such reverence.. apparently we’d rather see cattle and fences all over it now.

Shame.

what an incredibly disingenuous take of what I said. public funding needs to be accurately and transparently allocated and spent. It is not intended for the largest corporate entities and richest people in the world to find loopholes to exploit so they can fund a project they think is righteous or personally enjoy.

 

[KurtR]

They are tough. They are a wild native animal. Invasive bovine cattle are bred to be helpless. Ever wonder why horses and cattle stay inside 4 foot tall fences?
Bison breaking fences is not an issue with bison. Thats an issue with fences. No public land should contain cattle fences.

Because cows are dumb but the horses choose to they could leave when ever they want.

Another side note i shot my biggest mule deer 188" with 12" broke off on public land with cows watching me. The world is a big grey area and trying to live in black and white is what causes most of the problems

 

[Sandhills]

Bison are wildlife why do they need to be easy to work with to be on a landscape? We demand elk are easy to work with before allowing them to be on the landscape? Since when do we as hunters advocate for only meek gentle animals?

Anyone who thinks bison taste bad has never had a wild free range bison cooked anything close to competently. My kid had it at 5 and still says the bison ribs I cooked were the best food he’s ever eaten.

Hunters on a conservation subreddit advocating against wildlife and interconnected habitats. Insane.

Like how does one hunt and spend time in wild places and not think something like a massive contiguous grassland habitat with a bunch of wild animals in it sound like anything less than paradise?

Can't say as I've ever ate wild buffalo but the ranch raised stuff ain't worth a shit.

 

[PLhunter]

Public lands should be kept for the public use.

Private citizens, not corporations.

Non profit have no business in farming


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How is this not a type of public use? It’s a public use that benefits me more than cattle ranching.

No one is talking farming here and there are plenty of farms that are non-profits. We have a local veteran run one. I’ll go tell them you’re against their operation that helps veterans heal through farming. They’ve got no business farming I’ll say.

 

[PLhunter]

Can't say as I've ever ate wild buffalo but the ranch raised stuff ain't worth a shit.

If you’re referring to the dried out burger they serve in restaurants then yes. It’s awful.

Real bison cooked competently and utilizing a variety of cuts not just burger is phenomenal. The tongue and a rib section I took to a party containing mostly non-hunters. The tongue was gone quickly and raved about by people who’ve never had wild game or tongue. The ribs were the second favorite of about 15 dishes available. The fat of a wild bison is incredibly flavorful and rich. I packed about 20 pounds of fat off the mountain and rendered it to make the burger. So all bison, bison burgers. It was so incredible I can still taste it and it’s long gone.

I mean just read historical counts. The real men of the day loved it. You just can’t cook it poorly to 165 and expect it to be good.

 

[Sandhills]

They are tough. They are a wild native animal. Invasive bovine cattle are bred to be helpless. Ever wonder why horses and cattle stay inside 4 foot tall fences?
Bison breaking fences is not an issue with bison. Thats an issue with fences. No public land should contain cattle fences.

So let's say I've got a private ranch right next to public. The state, feds, Indians, who ever, decide they're gonna turn buffalo out on public range. Those buffalo see that the grass is greener on my side of the fence and break it down to get in there. Now my cattle get out, I've got to round them up, fix fence and run the buffalo off to boot. That sure sounds like a buffalo issue to me. And that does happen.

There's good and bad ranchers just like every other group. I've dealt with some bad ones. One outfit that comes to mind turned out close to 600 head on the dry lake bed next to the wildlife area I worked at in California. Pretty sure they cut the fence on to the state ground and the cows grazed it down to a parking lot. Each cow had close to 15 brands on it, including what looked like a brand from Nevada that had cattle rustled. One bull they had was so broke down in the back end it drug itself across the ground with his front legs.

But for the most part, ranchers do a lot of good for wildlife and habitat, even public land ranchers. If it wasn't for ranchers, endangered species like lesser prairie chickens and Gunnison sage grouse would have had all their habitat tilled under by sod busters.

 

[Sandhills]

If you’re referring to the dried out burger they serve in restaurants then yes. It’s awful.

Real bison cooked competently and utilizing a variety of cuts not just burger is phenomenal. The tongue and a rib section I took to a party containing mostly non-hunters. The tongue was gone quickly and raved about by people who’ve never had wild game or tongue. The ribs were the second favorite of about 15 dishes available. The fat of a wild bison is incredibly flavorful and rich. I packed about 20 pounds of fat off the mountain and rendered it to make the burger. So all bison, bison burgers. It was so incredible I can still taste it and it’s long gone.

I mean just read historical counts. The real men of the day loved it. You just can’t cook it poorly to 165 and expect it to be good.

Now I love beef tongue, and I'd like to try buffalo tongue.

There's a buffalo ranch about an hour south of me, they have a food truck that comes to events around the area. Had a buffalo prime rib sammich at a event they were at. Cooked medium, shaved thin, pepper and onions on it. Werent worth a shit. Don't know why, just didnt care for it. Like grass fed, grass finished beef. Don't understand the appeal to that either.

 

[270-300]

Can't say as I've ever ate wild buffalo but the ranch raised stuff ain't worth a shit.

Ranches dont raise buffalo in north america.

 

[270-300]

Now I love beef tongue, and I'd like to try buffalo tongue.

There's a buffalo ranch about an hour south of me, they have a food truck that comes to events around the area. Had a buffalo prime rib sammich at a event they were at. Cooked medium, shaved thin, pepper and onions on it. Werent worth a shit. Don't know why, just didnt care for it. Like grass fed, grass finished beef. Don't understand the appeal to that either.

Your the only one here talking about buffalo. We are only interested in north american animals.

https://discoverdavis.com/bison-or-buffalo-discovering-antelope-islands-majestic-giants/

 

[WRO]

Now I love beef tongue, and I'd like to try buffalo tongue.

There's a buffalo ranch about an hour south of me, they have a food truck that comes to events around the area. Had a buffalo prime rib sammich at a event they were at. Cooked medium, shaved thin, pepper and onions on it. Werent worth a shit. Don't know why, just didnt care for it. Like grass fed, grass finished beef. Don't understand the appeal to that either.

Im the opposite, I don’t like beef rib eyes etc because they’re so fatty and flavorless. I’d rather eat chicken than beef burger. That being said I’ve bought beef burger for consumption just a handful of times in the last 15 years.

I have a freezer full of wild bison right now, it’s lean but I really like the flavor.


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[Sandhills]

Ranches dont raise buffalo in north america.

Bison, excuse me. I'll be sure and call sparrowhawks kestrels amongst this group too...

 

[270-300]

Im the opposite, I don’t like beef rib eyes etc because they’re so fatty and flavorless. I’d rather eat chicken than beef burger. That being said I’ve bought beef burger for consumption just a handful of times in the last 15 years.

I have a freezer full of wild bison right now, it’s lean but I really like the flavor.


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Bison, excuse me. I'll be sure and call sparrowhawks kestrels amongst this group too...

Its important to explain which animal your talking about. Many people on here DO interact with BUFFALO in AFRICA, many of us DO Interact with BISON in North America.

Do you read the wolf hunting regulations and assume coyotes and domestic dogs are in the same regulations?

Do you apply for mule deer tags and assume white tails can also be shot with them?

Bison and buffalo are two incredibly different species. Cattle are more similar to bison than buffalo are.

 

[Sandhills]

Im the opposite, I don’t like beef rib eyes etc because they’re so fatty and flavorless. I’d rather eat chicken than beef burger. That being said I’ve bought beef burger for consumption just a handful of times in the last 15 years.

I have a freezer full of wild bison right now, it’s lean but I really like the flavor.


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Beef from the store is about worthless, ranch raised, properly finished and aged beef is one million times better.

There's some people who eat coyote, if that's your gig by all means enjoy it. Ain't for me.

 

[WRO]

So let's say I've got a private ranch right next to public. The state, feds, Indians, who ever, decide they're gonna turn buffalo out on public range. Those buffalo see that the grass is greener on my side of the fence and break it down to get in there. Now my cattle get out, I've got to round them up, fix fence and run the buffalo off to boot. That sure sounds like a buffalo issue to me. And that does happen.

There's good and bad ranchers just like every other group. I've dealt with some bad ones. One outfit that comes to mind turned out close to 600 head on the dry lake bed next to the wildlife area I worked at in California. Pretty sure they cut the fence on to the state ground and the cows grazed it down to a parking lot. Each cow had close to 15 brands on it, including what looked like a brand from Nevada that had cattle rustled. One bull they had was so broke down in the back end it drug itself across the ground with his front legs.

But for the most part, ranchers do a lot of good for wildlife and habitat, even public land ranchers. If it wasn't for ranchers, endangered species like lesser prairie chickens and Gunnison sage grouse would have had all their habitat tilled under by sod busters.

Elk do the same thing with fences.

The water sources that have been put in on the range are definitely helpful to wild life.

The ranchers locally do a piss poor job on them public, good winter range gets grazed to dust in August/September every year. Then the whining commences about elk and deer, if you bring it up they’re doing gods work preventing fires. We have cows illegally in wilderness areas, and the fine for over grazing is 1.33 per additional AUM, not exactly a deterrent.

I hunt some private ranches in nm, their range management is amazing and seeing how good ranchers treat their own dirt is fascinating to me. I know a lot of great ranchers including one of my best friends, it’s not all bad apples, just a few that fuk it up and it’s mostly the entitled lease guys that I end up having bad interactions with.

I carry a chain in my truck that I use to rip out illegal locked gates on public a couple times a year.


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[Sandhills]

Its important to explain which animal your talking about. Many people on here DO interact with BUFFALO in AFRICA, many of us DO Interact with BISON in North America.

Do you read the wolf hunting regulations and assume coyotes and domestic dogs are in the same regulations?

Do you apply for mule deer tags and assume white tails can also be shot with them?

Bison and buffalo are two incredibly different species. Cattle are more similar to bison than buffalo are.

The average American, and I'll bet Canadian too, calls bison buffalo. Hell all the Indians I know call em buffalo.

I'll be sure to call them bison from now on so I don't confuse you.