American Prairie loses grazing rights

[Sandhills]

Somebody doesn't like having their behavior reflected back to them.


Ever heard of a farmer?

Do you really believe the 94-98% of cattle raised on private in the US don't need money spent on fences and water? Or that those ranchers/farmers/cattleman don't pay taxes on land they own that in some cases are more than a grazing lease?

Sure they spend money on it. My Father in law has a big fence project coming up that'll I'll be helping on. Oil well pipe ain't cheap. That's not the point though.

Proper Grazing reduces wildfire risk, improves bird habitat, and promotes plant growth.

Sod busters, all they care about is their next bushel and they'd kill every deer in the nation to get one more.

 

[Gila]

If so, than so is the publicly subsidize grazing of cattle. So, if socialism is always bad, time to get some socialist ranchers off the land.

Better option is stop using words inappropriately to demonize others. Neither can accurately be described as socialist.

Your circular logic is getting a bit ridiculous. Go listen to Newberg’s podcasts about AP. You will find his propaganda equally ridiculous. So you think that the gov’t should subsidize Eco-Tourism instead of cattle grazing? Ranchers don’t graze their cattle for free.

Thankfully Doug Bergum settled this matter with a little bit of common sense.

 

[Gila]

Farmers need farm subsidies to keep afloat at times also.

Conservation Reserve Program pays to keep land out of production for habitat improvement. The drought in NE Montana was so bad a few years ago that the Feds put out an emergency to allow haying and grazing on CRP lands.

 

[WoolOverAll]

So you think that the gov’t should subsidize Eco-Tourism instead of cattle grazing?

Yes I do. The public does not have an obligation to prop up inefficient cattle farms and should instead look for economically viable alternatives. In your own example, if American Prairie ends up being another Yellowstone, I see that as an immense benefit to the public. Another park capable of generating hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue and thousands of jobs seems good to me!

 

[tipsntails7]

Read some of Sean Gerrity’s papers if you have some time. He had several presentations on YouTube. His experience is getting large wild animal preserves and parks in Africa. Quite a bit of his funding comes from former Soviet Union Oligarchs. The bison are not to be consumed by humans because he plans to get Grizzlies and Wolves to predate on the bison and other ungulates on the Preserve. His goal is to connect three million acres for predator management and bison grazing.

American Prairie is just another Yellowstone only privately owned (for now). Deb Haaland subsidized American Prairie by allowing them to graze their bison (not raised for consumption) on BLM land. Those Grazing leases came with the cattle ranches they bought up. AP dangled a carrot in front of hunters by putting 80K into Block Management and allowing some access to public lands on their borders. Newberg and Hettick (BHA) are trying to get hunter support for AP. They are also in bed with Center for Biological Diversity. American Prairie is a socialist idea and has nothing to do with the North American Wildlife Conservation Model which uses our excise taxes on sporting goods etc. for wildlife management.

I will do some reading, and get better informed with this, but correct me below if I am wrong.

The BLM's own report for the original decision in Montana specifically noted Bison grazing could lead to overall habitat improvement when compared to Cattle, which from everything I can find has been true.

AP bought ranches, in a free market, that had already established leases.

AP is not running the ranches or leases for profit to sell Bison meat, yet are required to pay the same AUM Fees as cattle leases.

They have revived the Bison population to where they are now offering hunting opportunities specifically for Bison in certain areas.

They have opened up 160k plus acres of land to public use, and 80k of that is enrolled in the block management, not including access its opened to bordering BLM lands that were impossible to access.


So... your issue is... they are blocking cattle ranchers from using public land for profit, from all accounts to the ecological detriment of the land.


As a hunter, Conservationist, and general outdoorsman that loves wild places, I cant really square that.

 

[Marbles]

Your circular logic is getting a bit ridiculous. Go listen to Newberg’s podcasts about AP. You will find his propaganda equally ridiculous. So you think that the gov’t should subsidize Eco-Tourism instead of cattle grazing? Ranchers don’t graze their cattle for free.

Thankfully Doug Bergum settled this matter with a little bit of common sense.

Creating a strawman because you cannot argue the actual topic doesn't help your case.

Do you know what socialism is?

Do you know what circular reasoning is?

So far, you have been demonstrating the answer is no.


1. Socialism is the government owning the means and methods of production.
2. If the government owning one portion and subsidizing the use of that portion is socialism, then it must be socialism in all cases, not just when the word is convenient to you.
3. I offered two options, either both are socialism for the same reasons (which apparently offends you) or neither are socialism because complete control is not in the publics hands (though both have some traits of socialism).

I prefer the latter interpretation, but am willing to discuss the implications of the former given you put it forth.

However, it is becoming increasingly clear that you prefer logical duplicity and orwellian double speak. That attitude is the foundation of tyranny, regardless of the system it is employed in.


Your statement on American Prairie being socialist actually is bordering on circular reasoning giving the improper use of the word.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Creating a strawman because you cannot argue the actual topic doesn't help your case.

Do you know what socialism is?

Do you know what circular reasoning is?

So far, you have been demonstrating the answer is no.


1. Socialism is the government owning the means and methods of production.
2. If the government owning one portion and subsidizing the use of that portion is socialism, then it must be socialism in all cases, not just when the word is convenient to you.
3. I offered two options, either both are socialism for the same reasons (which apparently offends you) or neither are socialism because complete control is not in the publics hands (though both have some traits of socialism).

I prefer the latter interpretation, but am willing to discuss the implications of the former given you put it forth.

However, it is becoming increasingly clear that you prefer logical duplicity and orwellian double speak. That attitude is the foundation of tyranny, regardless of the system it is employed in.


On the other hand, your statement on American Prairie being socialist actually is bordering on circular reasoning giving the improper use of the word.

It's just boomer buzzword salad, not a real ideological position. Socialist just means "I don't directly benefit from it this instant".

 

[WRO]

Sure they spend money on it. My Father in law has a big fence project coming up that'll I'll be helping on. Oil well pipe ain't cheap. That's not the point though.

Proper Grazing reduces wildfire risk, improves bird habitat, and promotes plant growth.

Sod busters, all they care about is their next bushel and they'd kill every deer in the nation to get one more.

That’s what we’re dealing with locally, cows illegally in the wilderness, illegal roads, the steppe grazed to dirt. Then the loudest weeping and gnashing of teeth of the elk come within 5 miles of their private winter range how they’re eating us out of house and home and we need to kill them off. After they spend the summer and fall eating the range bare for profit.