Alpha glass vs Razors......

[golfbum]

Didn't mean to offend you or anyone else here, but I can confidently say you are in the minority if you believe Razor HD's are optically equal to SLC's, and we haven't even touched on durability yet.

In any case I'd choose any country of origin over a made in China bin. Just no reason to supply them with more money that we already are as consumers.

I look at it this way: SLC's are a fine instrument that will last generations and can be serviced by Swaro to like-new condition. Razors are a disposable assembly line product and they often pitch them in the trash rather than service them and give you another off the shelf.

Bottom line is if you prefer the Razor's to Swaro's, then go with them, but I just don't feel you'll end up convincing many folks here to sell off their Alpha's to buy Chinese.

Again, no hard feelings.

No hard feelings taken, and I’m not trying to convince anyone razors are the equal to anything.

for me they are the equal to the Slc’s I owned.
That model was a 2020 hd model. I have also owned a pair of 2007 Slc’s that the razors are better then.

I hope the Ultravids I just purchased blow the razors out of the water (doubtful). I will update this thread with my thoughts. If the Leica are better, I will be keeping them.

on a side note anyone have a bino tray they recommend as I need to pick one up for the Leica’s.

 

[nobody]

I bought some Razor UHD 10x42s that are still new and unopened. In reading up on things I’m leaning towards moving them instead and getting some Maven B2 9x45s and B3 8x30s. Mostly whitetail hunting in WI, but hope to get out West to hunt soon, too. This will be my first foray in to any type of serious glass. I honestly could afford to drop the coin for some upper echelon glass, but I feel better about starting a little lower so I can appreciate the journey into something better, haha.
Do you recommend two sets for different situation, or starting with something top line in the typical 8x42 or 10x42?


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I would sell those UHD's and pick up the Maven's without question! But honestly, just stick with the 9x45's for an all around pair and save the money you would've spent on the B3's for your first Western elk hunt! A 9 power won't be that much different for viewing than the 8 power, but the 45mm objective lens will let in more light in low light situations than the 30mm. You'll be grateful for the extra light in the whitetail woods!

And the durability of the Maven's will be superior to the Vortex, based on my experience. Like I said in my above post, the glass may be good, but they just don't hold up to hard use. I've experienced a 100% failure rate with my 5 vortex products under what I would consider normal use. The only other optic I've ever broken was a 50 year old Leupold M8 in fixed 6 power, so it's not like I'm constantly breaking my stuff either. I still say, take a look at how many guys are running their original SLC's from 20 years ago without ever sending them back for any type of cleaning or TLC. Can we say the same thing about most people's Vipers from 6 or 8 years ago?

The beauty of this thread is just the proof of how far optics have come. Even a cheap pair of $200 binos blows most mid-high range glass of 25 years ago out of the water. We really are spoiled in the world of optics!

 

[Rodéo]

I wonder how manny of the people on this thread bashing razors, again.... and saying they stand "no chance" next against slc's, have actually tested them both side by side on the mountain. My guess is it's very few. Especially not the guy that says the razors made the mountain look like a blur while the slc's were razor sharp. I don't buy it. Have you tried adjusting the diopter? There are sub-$200 pairs of bino's that don't turn images "into a blur"... people take hype and wanting to defend their purchases way too seriously.

 

[nobody]

I wonder how manny of the people on this thread bashing razors, again.... and saying they stand "no chance" next against slc's, have actually tested them both side by side on the mountain. My guess is it's very few. Especially not the guy that says the razors made the mountain look like a blur while the slc's were razor sharp. I don't buy it. Have you tried adjusting the diopter? There are sub-$200 pairs of bino's that don't turn images "into a blur"... people take hype and wanting to defend their purchases way too seriously.

To be clear, I also think it's important that we distinguish between the Razor lines. Just saying that the Razor's suck or are awesome isn't exactly clear, because the Razor has two lines. The UHD's definitely get you 99% of the way to EL's without breaking a sweat (or your bank account!), but the regular HD's are a step down from the UHD's for sure. The UHD's are made in Japan, HD's in China. They might as well be two completely different tiers of optics, they're not even comparable to eachother.

 

[WI in the west]

I bought some Razor UHD 10x42s that are still new and unopened. In reading up on things I’m leaning towards moving them instead and getting some Maven B2 9x45s and B3 8x30s. Mostly whitetail hunting in WI, but hope to get out West to hunt soon, too. This will be my first foray in to any type of serious glass. I honestly could afford to drop the coin for some upper echelon glass, but I feel better about starting a little lower so I can appreciate the journey into something better, haha.
Do you recommend two sets for different situation, or starting with something top line in the typical 8x42 or 10x42?


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If your considering switching to maven, and are in SE wisconsin i got some b2 11x45’s you can check out before you make any decisions

 

[golfbum]

I agree.

allbinos ranks them right with the slc, Ultravids and ahead of a bunch of others.

robby from this site has done quite a few comparisons on video with vortex vipers and Kiababs and they are always right there. And the razor glass is better. S and S ranked the slc better but it damn close especially with the uhd.

razors are dang good, with a company that is all about customer service. I look forward to putting the 10x42 Ultravid through the paces and see how close they are. I’m guessing I will like the Leica glass quite a bit. But I’m pretty dang happy with razors

 

[golfbum]

I’m speaking of Japan made HD not the UHD.

with that said I have also owned China made razors and I liked the Japan models more. Most likely in my head.

 

[Rodéo]

To be clear, I also think it's important that we distinguish between the Razor lines. Just saying that the Razor's suck or are awesome isn't exactly clear, because the Razor has two lines. The UHD's definitely get you 99% of the way to EL's without breaking a sweat (or your bank account!), but the regular HD's are a step down from the UHD's for sure. The UHD's are made in Japan, HD's in China. They might as well be two completely different tiers of optics, they're not even comparable to eachother.

Yeah it is important to make that distinction. I've never seen a pair of UHD's in person so I have no experience there. The razors I'm referencing are both the razor hd and the razors made in Japan. Those bino's are at least as good as most of the glass I've looked through at a similar sub-$1000 price point. I haven't looked through their made in china bins but I'm suspecting I'll get to try soon since I'm going to send in two pairs of razor bino's for repair/replacement. They say they use the same components as they did in Japan but just moved manufacturing to China... I'm interested to see if I notice any difference between the japan and china sets optically.

 

[nobody]

Yeah it is important to make that distinction. I've never seen a pair of UHD's in person so I have no experience there. The razors I'm referencing are both the razor hd and the razors made in Japan. Those bino's are at least as good as most of the glass I've looked through at a similar sub-$1000 price point. I haven't looked through their made in china bins but I'm suspecting I'll get to try soon since I'm going to send in two pairs of razor bino's for repair/replacement. They say they use the same components as they did in Japan but just moved manufacturing to China... I'm interested to see if I notice any difference between the japan and china sets optically.

Hopefully you're pleasantly surprised! Dad's Japan made UHD's really are pretty unreal in terms of optical quality compared with the base model Razor's, but they're still new to the marketplace relatively so we will see how they do over time!

I do think there's a big difference in the Japanese made Razors and the China made Razor's as well. The old Japanese made Razors just seem to be built... beefier? They just seem better put together, and the chinese ones leave alot to be desired in my experience, and the optical quality, in my experience and opinion, is inferior to the Japanese made Razor HD's of yesterday. I would push Vortex to repair yours if at all possible, because those Japanese Razor's are gems compared to lots of new stuff! Especially when you consider what they used to cost when you got them!

 

[Rodéo]

Great! Glad to read your review of the UHD's. They look like solid glass but the price point seems a little high that's probably what keeps most folks away in that price range. Luckily I picked up most of my made in Japan razors on the used market so I'm not too concerned with what vortex decides to do. This is more for testing purposes anyways.. I'm kind of an optics junkie haha. The made in Japan razors are built like tanks compared to the made in china models I've handled in the store so that's at least one notable difference but it also comes with a 8-10 oz reduction in weight on most models. If it weren't for those flimsy plastic focus wheels on the made in japan razors I think they would take a lot of abuse and still work well.

 

[golfbum]

Yeah it is important to make that distinction. I've never seen a pair of UHD's in person so I have no experience there. The razors I'm referencing are both the razor hd and the razors made in Japan. Those bino's are at least as good as most of the glass I've looked through at a similar sub-$1000 price point. I haven't looked through their made in china bins but I'm suspecting I'll get to try soon since I'm going to send in two pairs of razor bino's for repair/replacement. They say they use the same components as they did in Japan but just moved manufacturing to China... I'm interested to see if I notice any difference between the japan and china sets optically.

I would be interested to hear what has gone wrong with your razors? Why would they need to be repaired/replaced? Build quality or user caused?

I do notice a lot of guys saying they have issues that require work or replacing of their vortex products. I haven’t experienced the same but I will admit you do see a lot of old swaro/Leica/Zeiss that stand the test of time

 

[golfbum]

For what it’s worth, my Japan razors weigh basically the same as the China ones.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

All eyes are different, but my experience couldn’t be more opposite of yours. Maybe the razors still had the bubble wrap over the objective lenses?

I don’t believe for one minute the razors were a blur making out a mountain but the slc were razor sharp.

maybe one with a very good knowledge of optics can detect a difference in CA or glare but it’s not a huge difference. No chance.

I will be 100% honest when I get the Ultravids in to test. If they are better I will keep them and move the razors. I highly doubt it will be jaw dropping but if it is I will eat crow. I know for me, the slc was very much equal to my razors. Again maybe both of my pairs are not the norm or maybe I had a bad sample of swaro Slc’s?

I honestly do not remember you being present when I did compare the Razors to the SLCs.

I did go to Bass Pro in Mesa AZ several years ago to specifically buy the Razor 10s as an upgrade to my Viper HD 8s. In the store, the Razors and SLCs showed the same detail on the cobwebs, dust, dents, missed spots of paint, etc. I then looked through their main window from the Optics department with the Razors and looked at Camelback Mountain. The Razors did not provide a clear picture; blurry was the right description. I then looked at Camelback with the SLCs. It was a night and day difference. The SLCs so thoroughly beat the Razors with that specific view that I handed the Razors back to the sales associate and told him that I will take the SLCs. Did I just so happen to look through a bad pair of Razor? Maybe. But I do know that on that day the SLCs I looked through were significantly better than the Razors that I looked through. Not one day has passed that I wished I had bought those Razors over the SLCs.

On a side note, your comment "I will be 100% honest..." implies that you have been dishonest so far. Not saying that you have been dishonest, but it could give someone the impression.

 

[golfbum]

I honestly do not remember you being present when I did compare the Razors to the SLCs.

I did go to Bass Pro in Mesa AZ several years ago to specifically buy the Razor 10s as an upgrade to my Viper HD 8s. In the store, the Razors and SLCs showed the same detail on the cobwebs, dust, dents, missed spots of paint, etc. I then looked through their main window from the Optics department with the Razors and looked at Camelback Mountain. The Razors did not provide a clear picture; blurry was the right description. I then looked at Camelback with the SLCs. It was a night and day difference. The SLCs so thoroughly beat the Razors with that specific view that I handed the Razors back to the sales associate and told him that I will take the SLCs. Did I just so happen to look through a bad pair of Razor? Maybe. But I do know that on that day the SLCs I looked through were significantly better than the Razors that I looked through. Not one day has passed that I wished I had bought those Razors over the SLCs.

On a side note, your comment "I will be 100% honest..." implies that you have been dishonest so far. Not saying that you have been dishonest, but it could give someone the impression.

For those that think I’m being dishonest, I’m not. And I will continue to be 100% honest in my review of the Leica’s when I get them. Better?

glad you are happy with your Slc’s, a lot of people really like them!

 

[JGRaider]

I wonder how manny of the people on this thread bashing razors, again.... and saying they stand "no chance" next against slc's, have actually tested them both side by side on the mountain. My guess is it's very few. Especially not the guy that says the razors made the mountain look like a blur while the slc's were razor sharp. I don't buy it. Have you tried adjusting the diopter? There are sub-$200 pairs of bino's that don't turn images "into a blur"... people take hype and wanting to defend their purchases way too seriously.

My buddy owns the local gun shop here, and he carries Vorex, Nikon, Swaro, Leica, Zeiss, and Leupold binoculars. I've compared the Razor HD to the Monarch HG, Conquest HD, Leupy BX4, and the one's I own including Meostar HD, and my SLC (2020 version). In my comparisons, side by side on tripods, I'd put the Razor last, slightly below the BX4 and Conquest HD.

There's always something as good or better than a Vortex for the same, and often times less money, especially when you're talking about the UHD. Since it costs $1400 (terrible price point IMO), you put a Swaro SLC up beside the UHD at virtually the same price and 9 out of 10 will pick the Swaro. Resell on the UHD has lot's to be desired as well, and all you have to do is look on the classified board here.....they take forever to get rid of. Chicom binos suck.

 

[Rodéo]

I would be interested to hear what has gone wrong with your razors? Why would they need to be repaired/replaced? Build quality or user caused?

I do notice a lot of guys saying they have issues that require work or replacing of their vortex products. I haven’t experienced the same but I will admit you do see a lot of old swaro/Leica/Zeiss that stand the test of time

Both of them were user caused. I'm pretty rough on gear that I'm testing so both my 8.5 and 10x50's and 10x42's have both been put through the ringer on purpose. They've been submerged in water, subject to cold temps and hot temps for long periods and dropped off tripods multiple times. All the bino's held up well to the abuse but all of them eventually developed gritty focus wheels, some focus wheels broke internally, and some eyecups broke off. Also minor scratches on glass but views weren't affected by that as far as I could tell.

My made in japan razors are all older models with the central diopter attached to the focus ring. According to your description of yours being about the same weight as the made in china razors I think you have the gen 2 made in japan model - with the diopter on the right eyepiece instead of a focus wheel diopter like mine.

Looking forward to reading your review/comparison with the ultravids.

 

[golfbum]

That’s correct, gen 2 Japan made.

 

[TexaninSconny]

If your considering switching to maven, and are in SE wisconsin i got some b2 11x45’s you can check out before you make any decisions

I’m down in Mexico currently (sadly missing out on the snowpocalypse ). But I’m in Racine and would love to try out the 11x45’s if you aren’t too far away. Not sure if you saddle hunt or not, but I have some Shikar FXDs and Predator XL you can try out if you have any interest in that.


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[JohnJohnson]

I wonder how manny of the people on this thread bashing razors, again.... and saying they stand "no chance" next against slc's, have actually tested them both side by side on the mountain. My guess is it's very few. Especially not the guy that says the razors made the mountain look like a blur while the slc's were razor sharp. I don't buy it. Have you tried adjusting the diopter? There are sub-$200 pairs of bino's that don't turn images "into a blur"... people take hype and wanting to defend their purchases way too seriously.

The only comparison I can attest to is Razor 10x50 vs Swarovski EL 10x50 side by side on tripods glassing 200 yards - 2 miles for 6-8 hours a day for a week or so. I absolutely did not expect the differences to be THAT noticeable but I was wrong. Again, I can't comment on how Razors stack up against any other brand.

 

[Hatchet Jack]

here's a real world, do or die comparison for ya. On a coues hunt in 2019, my brother getting ready to shoot at a good buck who is creeping through some thick oak and juniper at 400-something yards. It's last last light, facing due west into the fading sunset; tough optical conditions. I'm behind my 12x50 ELs, my buddy behind his made in Japan Razor 12x50s. I tell my brother to wait for the buck to clear that big dead juniper branch so he has a clear shot at his shoulder. my buddy with the razors says what are you talking about, shoot him. I step back and let him look through my swaros. damn, he says. We wait for the buck to clear the branch and he still misses. But after that you'll never convince me vortex= swaro. Granted they aren't supposed to be swaros, just don't tell me they're equal.