Alpha glass vs Razors......

[golfbum]

I have been on a never ending optic search for the last couple years.....

I have been through the following......

Nikon HG
Swaro slc and el
Zeiss classic
Leica trinovid (pre hd)
Leica Ultravid hd 10x50
And several pairs of Razors (Japan and china)


I am a firm believer that the els and Leica were the only two that I could see an optical benefit to the razors. The slc and Nikon were great but to my eyes the razors were every bit as good. I did like the Japan razors more then the China ones but probably more in my head then really anything optically.

after reading time and time again about how the razors get blown away by alpha glass and even most mid tier (1000$) glass, and being puzzled with what is wrong with me, i bit the bullet and will be doing a long test against a pair of Ultravid HD plus against my two sets of Japan razors. All in 10x42

I loved the Leica’s I owned so my hopes are high for the Ultravid hd.

I will also note that I have had no real issues with my razors or any vortex product minus a rangefinder, but every time I have contacted them they are quick and easy to deal with.

i can’t say the same for Leica at this point but will update the registration process in my thoughts.

If Leica improves the service to swaro level for me I think Leica would be king. We will see though!

 

[Spiral Horn]

I’ve owned all of the Alphas. Been a Leica optics owner for over 30 years. Still have and use my old Trinovid 8x32 BAs. Also had a number of their CRF Rangefinders and recently upgraded to the 3500.com. I will say their customer service used to be terrible, but recent experiences by most, including me have been exceptional. The company has re-dedicated to customer service and it shows. Had an old 1000-r CRF that no longer worked and I contacted Leica. They took it back, could not repair and sent me a new one, all within a week of me sending it back.

As far as the Vortex Razors, I’m assuming you are talking about the HDs and not the new monstrous UHDs, correct? To my eyes every single glass on your list would be superior to the Razors (maybe not every single version of the Trinovid, but all others). Another to add to your list is the Kowa Genesis Prominar 10.5x44 as they are currently on sale in the $1k range and expect they will vastly outperform the Razors.

 

[golfbum]

I’ve owned all of the Alphas. Been a Leica optics owner for over 30 years. Still have and use my old Trinovid 8x32 BAs. Also had a number of their CRF Rangefinders and recently upgraded to the 3500.com. I will say their customer service used to be terrible, but recent experiences by most, including me have been exceptional. The company has re-dedicated to customer service and it shows. Had an old 1000-r CRF that no longer worked and I contacted Leica. They took it back, could not repair and sent me a new one, all within a week of me sending it back.

As far as the Vortex Razors, I’m assuming you are talking about the HDs and not the new monstrous UHDs, correct? To my eyes every single glass on your list would be superior to the Razors (maybe not every single version of the Trinovid, but all others). Another to add to your list is the Kowa Genesis Prominar 10.5x44 as they are currently on sale in the $1k range and expect they will vastly outperform the Razors.

I think I actually bought that 1000r from
You. Unfortunately I sold it as I seem to like to have all the same brand

I hope you are right with their service as they make a heck of bino!

as far as the razors go, maybe I have two excellent samples but both my razors that I currently own are great. So great that I sold my 2020 model Slc’s as I could not tell a bit of difference and actually prefer the ergonomics of the razor more. I did love the leicas and the els were great. I will put the new Ultravids up against them in multiple scenarios and will move the ones I like least. The razors or Ultravids are going to be the end of my search for a few years.

 

[TexaninSconny]

Golfbum, were you looking to purchase some Razors at the end of January?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[golfbum]

I’m always looking.....haha

I currently have two sets of Japan made 10x42s, I wanted to find a set of 10x50s or 8s.

 

[HuntNTag]

I have been a razor fan from the get go. I’ve had multiple razors in different sizes, all from Japan. My hands down favorite is the 10x42 due to its size and ergos. I’ve done extensive comparisons and have to agree that they are solid.

However, the biggest difference I’ve noticed is in the depth of view and the need for focus. I’ve had SLC’s and meopta meostars which both needed way less focusing as well as Leica Duovids which also needed less focusing.

My EL’s hands down have the best depth of view where I can glass at 200 yards and 1500 yards and don’t have to touch my focus because my eyes just adjust super easy to them. On my razors, I am constantly focusing them. But that’s just me and my experience. I still have my razors and use them as rentals or let my buddies use them on hunts. Otherwise I have a pair in my truck at all times. Otherwise I’m using my EL’s and either some Kaibabs or a spotter depending on my hunts and I’m happy as a clam with my optics package.


If the razors work for you, enjoy them man because they have a few things going for them. They do everything you would want for a great price point and they have an amazing size/weight that you will really struggle to find elsewhere.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rodéo]

I've been testing razors as well against other similarly priced glass and I went in thinking the razors had no chance but I was wrong. They stand up well and even better than some glass that I've been testing them against. I've had experience with 10x42 and 10x50 razors, both made in Japan, and compared them directly to maven B.2's, tract torics, leupold bx-4's, and kowa genesis. The only gripes I have with the razors are with the focus wheel. Both sets of binos I had (and one razor 65mm spotting scope) had multiple different focus wheel problems.

I get that there's better glass out there but people tend to really bash the razors but I can't seem to justify that position based on the optical quality alone. I sent in the 10x50's for focus wheel repair and I'm going to send in the 10x42's soon as well. If they replace with the made in china version I'm looking forward to testing those against made in japan models.

 

[JGRaider]

Like Rodeo, my gripe with the Razor isn't the glass, as it is excellent. I do not like the thin eyecups that have problems staying where I put them, hinge tension that varies from sample to sample, and the relatively narrow FOV from the Jap models. I don't want anything to do with the new Chicom made versions.

 

[golfbum]

Like Rodeo, my gripe with the Razor isn't the glass, as it is excellent. I do not like the thin eyecups that have problems staying where I put them, hinge tension that varies from sample to sample, and the relatively narrow FOV from the Jap models. I don't want anything to do with the new Chicom made versions.

I actually really like the eyecups and live the ergonomics of the razors.

From a listed fov the razors best a lot of 10x42s (not sure the specs of the Japan model).

will be interested to see side by side how they stack up with the Ultravid!

I was able to contact Leica service and things were handled pretty well getting them registered in my name (used pair).

thanks for the thoughts everyone!

 

[AGPank]

I had a pair of razors several years ago. I liked the weight and how they fit my hands. I didn’t like the thin eye cups. The decal on the focus adjustment fell off, it’s just glued on. The build quality didn’t feel as solid as Leica, Swarovski, or Meopta.

The clarity was fine, but to my eyes the image seemed to enhance whites and didn’t have much contrast. My pair didn’t control CA as well as Meostars or SLC HD, or EL.

If you are real hard on gear the no fault warranty is the selling point. Helps hold the resell to those who like the glass too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

I've been testing razors as well against other similarly priced glass and I went in thinking the razors had no chance but I was wrong. They stand up well and even better than some glass that I've been testing them against. I've had experience with 10x42 and 10x50 razors, both made in Japan, and compared them directly to maven B.2's, tract torics, leupold bx-4's, and kowa genesis. The only gripes I have with the razors are with the focus wheel. Both sets of binos I had (and one razor 65mm spotting scope) had multiple different focus wheel problems.

I get that there's better glass out there but people tend to really bash the razors but I can't seem to justify that position based on the optical quality alone. I sent in the 10x50's for focus wheel repair and I'm going to send in the 10x42's soon as well. If they replace with the made in china version I'm looking forward to testing those against made in japan models.

Here's free advice: Stick with the non-UHD Razors as it is the only binocular that is going to make you personally happy.

I went to the store several years ago specifically to the buy Razor 10s and walked out of the store with SLC 10s. The Razors were only competitive with the SLCs at short distances. With each passing yard, the Razors fell behind on providing a clear picture. When it came time to look at Camelback mountain, the best the Razors could do was to provide a "blur" while the SLCs were still crisp. This was a no brainer for me.

I hear all the time from some friends and some folks that I hunt with that their non-alpha binoculars are just as good as my Swaros. However, it seems that every time I find something of interest they somehow always want to look through my Swaros. If their binoculars are "just as good" as mine then 1) why do they have to look through my Swaros and 2) why do they tend to fight to keep glassing through my Swaros?

 

[nobody]

The Chinese made Razor HD's compare nicely with most $500 binos. They've been passed up by pretty much every other maker on the market.

My dad just got some of the new Japanese Razor UHD's in 12x50, and I will say the glass is a noticeable step up from all of the other Vortex offerings. We tested them in low light against some EL's as well as the new NL Pure's. The NL's were obviously better, and dare I say worth twice the money you pay. They were easily twice as good as the UHD's to my eyes, without question.

The surprise was comparing them to the EL's. The EL's were better, but it was definitely close. We were glassing a hillside at about 800 yards at sunset, and the EL's had better edge to edge clarity, but not enough to warrant the $1000 price increase in my dad's eyes. So, we bought him the UHD's. They were an easy step up from his 20 year old Bausch and Lomb's.

What makes me nervous is the questionable longevity of the Vortex. I guess we will see how good they are in 5 years, depending on how many times they've had to go back for repairs. At the end of the day, the OP asked about glass quality, and the UHD's are there with glass. Really and truthfully, they are super clear! My fear is the whole package holding up. In my experience, their stuff just doesn't hold up to hard use as well as most other brands. How many guys still run 30 year old Swaros that have never been returned for any type of repair or warranty work? My guess is the number of guys who have their original Viper's from 10 years ago is a very small percentage of purchasers, potentially in the single digits. To me, that's a testament of durability of the true Alpha Glass companies. But as far as glass clarity, the UHD's are great.

 

[golfbum]

Here's free advice: Stick with the non-UHD Razors as it is the only binocular that is going to make you personally happy.

I went to the store several years ago specifically to the buy Razor 10s and walked out of the store with SLC 10s. The Razors were only competitive with the SLCs at short distances. With each passing yard, the Razors fell behind on providing a clear picture. When it came time to look at Camelback mountain, the best the Razors could do was to provide a "blur" while the SLCs were still crisp. This was a no brainer for me.

I hear all the time from some friends and some folks that I hunt with that their non-alpha binoculars are just as good as my Swaros. However, it seems that every time I find something of interest they somehow always want to look through my Swaros. If their binoculars are "just as good" as mine then 1) why do they have to look through my Swaros and 2) why do they tend to fight to keep glassing through my Swaros?

All eyes are different, but my experience couldn’t be more opposite of yours. Maybe the razors still had the bubble wrap over the objective lenses?

I don’t believe for one minute the razors were a blur making out a mountain but the slc were razor sharp.

maybe one with a very good knowledge of optics can detect a difference in CA or glare but it’s not a huge difference. No chance.

I will be 100% honest when I get the Ultravids in to test. If they are better I will keep them and move the razors. I highly doubt it will be jaw dropping but if it is I will eat crow. I know for me, the slc was very much equal to my razors. Again maybe both of my pairs are not the norm or maybe I had a bad sample of swaro Slc’s?

 

[nobody]

Here's free advice: Stick with the non-UHD Razors as it is the only binocular that is going to make you personally happy.

I went to the store several years ago specifically to the buy Razor 10s and walked out of the store with SLC 10s. The Razors were only competitive with the SLCs at short distances. With each passing yard, the Razors fell behind on providing a clear picture. When it came time to look at Camelback mountain, the best the Razors could do was to provide a "blur" while the SLCs were still crisp. This was a no brainer for me.

I hear all the time from some friends and some folks that I hunt with that their non-alpha binoculars are just as good as my Swaros. However, it seems that every time I find something of interest they somehow always want to look through my Swaros. If their binoculars are "just as good" as mine then 1) why do they have to look through my Swaros and 2) why do they tend to fight to keep glassing through my Swaros?

This adds up to what I've experienced with the base model Razor HD's. Fisheye effect at the edge, poor low light performance, and honestly they just feel like they're a less durable/cheaper pair of binos than the price suggests. I'm not kidding when I say they compete with stuff that costs 1/3 the price, and they're really nothing special as far as I'm concerned. Maven's C.1's out perform them in low light, and they let through a more natural color palette than the Vortex's. If the Razor HD's cost $400, then they'd be a great buy. But they're nothing special now that every other optics company has the same warranty.

 

[KHNC]

All eyes are different, but my experience couldn’t be more opposite of yours. Maybe the razors still had the bubble wrap over the objective lenses?

I don’t believe for one minute the razors were a blur making out a mountain but the slc were razor sharp.

maybe one with a very good knowledge of optics can detect a difference in CA or glare but it’s not a huge difference. No chance.

I will be 100% honest when I get the Ultravids in to test. If they are better I will keep them and move the razors. I highly doubt it will be jaw dropping but if it is I will eat crow. I know for me, the slc was very much equal to my razors. Again maybe both of my pairs are not the norm or maybe I had a bad sample of swaro Slc’s?

I agree with you. Most are quick to hate on Vortex just to jump on the bandwagon. My Razors have been every bit as good as any SLC's i have tried over the years. EL's were superior, as they should have been. I also agree that Leica has some great glass as well.

 

[TexaninSconny]

I bought some Razor UHD 10x42s that are still new and unopened. In reading up on things I’m leaning towards moving them instead and getting some Maven B2 9x45s and B3 8x30s. Mostly whitetail hunting in WI, but hope to get out West to hunt soon, too. This will be my first foray in to any type of serious glass. I honestly could afford to drop the coin for some upper echelon glass, but I feel better about starting a little lower so I can appreciate the journey into something better, haha.
Do you recommend two sets for different situation, or starting with something top line in the typical 8x42 or 10x42?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Xlr8n]

If a guy is going to spend the money on a Razor UHD, then you'd be much better off buying Maven's for 2/3's the price with a very similar view and similar warranty.

As far as the Razor HD's, if anyone thinks the view is equal to an SLC, then they just haven't spent much time behind them outside of a retail store. The differences are pretty apparent under first and last light when game is moving. High noon under clear skies and yeah, Razors will look great, but so will many other optics for a lot less money.

It's not that Razor's HD's are bad, but for the same money you can equal to better optics that aren't made in China. No brainer.

 

[golfbum]

I bought some Razor UHD 10x42s that are still new and unopened. In reading up on things I’m leaning towards moving them instead and getting some Maven B2 9x45s and B3 8x30s. Mostly whitetail hunting in WI, but hope to get out West to hunt soon, too. This will be my first foray in to any type of serious glass. I honestly could afford to drop the coin for some upper echelon glass, but I feel better about starting a little lower so I can appreciate the journey into something better, haha.
Do you recommend two sets for different situation, or starting with something top line in the typical 8x42 or 10x42?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think a good set of 8 or 10x42s would work great for 95% of most glassing situations.

I would keep the UHD myself.

 

[golfbum]

If a guy is going to spend the money on a Razor UHD, then you'd be much better off buying Maven's for 2/3's the price with a very similar view and similar warranty.

As far as the Razor HD's, if anyone thinks the view is equal to an SLC, then they just haven't spent much time behind them outside of a retail store. The differences are pretty apparent under first and last light when game is moving. High noon under clear skies and yeah, Razors will look great, but so will many other optics for a lot less money.

simply not true.....

I hunted all fall with my slc. To my eyes they are no better then the razors. I was also disappointed with an ats 65hd so maybe my eyes just don’t like swaro glass.

but to say I haven’t spent much time with them outside is laughable. I spend about 60-70 days a year hunting, not to mention shooting my bow in the hills, and scouting/hiking.

I am far from an optic expert, but I am a gear geek and love nice stuff. Razors work well for me.

 

[Xlr8n]

simply not true.....

I hunted all fall with my slc. To my eyes they are no better then the razors. I was also disappointed with an ats 65hd so maybe my eyes just don’t like swaro glass.

but to say I haven’t spent much time with them outside is laughable. I spend about 60-70 days a year hunting, not to mention shooting my bow in the hills, and scouting/hiking.

I am far from an optic expert, but I am a gear geek and love nice stuff. Razors work well for me.

Didn't mean to offend you or anyone else here, but I can confidently say you are in the minority if you believe Razor HD's are optically equal to SLC's, and we haven't even touched on durability yet.

In any case I'd choose any country of origin over a made in China bin. Just no reason to supply them with more money that we already are as consumers.

I look at it this way: SLC's are a fine instrument that will last generations and can be serviced by Swaro to like-new condition. Razors are a disposable assembly line product and they often pitch them in the trash rather than service them and give you another off the shelf.

Bottom line is if you prefer the Razor's to Swaro's, then go with them, but I just don't feel you'll end up convincing many folks here to sell off their Alpha's to buy Chinese.

Again, no hard feelings.