Alaska Sheep Hunt Pricing

[fbhandler]

This method of pricing or something similar (I’d prefer the wounded/blood wording as it seems more strait forward ) is the “ONLY” way I would ever be able to consider a hunt like this… As one of “those” people, it’s obvious to me what and why your trying to accomplish and frankly its a breath of fresh air !!

While I highly doubt you’ll change the “industry” I do believe it’s this kind of thing that gets people to consider if there isn’t a better way and that can in fact, and often does, change things. You’re going to get a lot of pushback (just look a fair bit of these comments) and this, it seems from the client side of things, imagine when the guides start getting wind of it ?!

We see a lot of the “it’s capitalism” thing being put out there… and I firmly believe it’s be best system going, yet I wonder how many of these same people whine and complain about all the YouTube influencers and such like, just “providing what the market will bear” (I for one would prefer it was all shut down btw). The reality that, just because you “can” charge more for something doesn’t necessarily mean you should… is completely lost on today’s society, and we wonder why scammers of every sort are coming out of the woodwork, from Washington DC to Facebook all the way to Alaska Dall sheep hunting !!

Desperate or ignorant people will always be willing to pay more for something then it’s worth and unfortunately this is a huge supply/demand driver… Greedy people will always cheerlead their plunder as those standing to profit, or those who have themselves fallen prey and don’t want to be the only ones. It’s rare to stand and say “I won’t be on either side of that mess” I have no doubt you’ll be successful in your endeavors op

 

[rentalrunner22]

Make sure to price it enough that you could hire others to operate within your business and they get fed and you get fed.

 

[Mojave]

This method of pricing or something similar (I’d prefer the wounded/blood wording as it seems more strait forward ) is the “ONLY” way I would ever be able to consider a hunt like this… As one of “those” people, it’s obvious to me what and why your trying to accomplish and frankly its a breath of fresh air !!

The problem is that even if you are a good guy and true to your word about the 400 yard identified legal ram. Your predecessors in the Yukon and BC who have sold hunts for tags they didn't have and then taken guys on very long expensive walks paved the way that zero people believe sheep outfitters anymore. Outside of Ravens Throat, Red River and select few others.

An actual draw blood trophy fee is true piece of mind on a sheep hunt.

Never hunted sheep in Alaska, lived in Barrow so it wasn't like I was on the road system. Charters to the Brooks from Barrow in 2000 were only available if you paid for a charter from Fairbanks to come and pick you up. Wasn't happening on my dime.

 

[fbhandler]

An actual draw blood trophy fee is true piece of mind on a sheep hunt.

I agree with this as well. Seems to accomplish the OPs goals without unnecessary interpretation needed.

 

[gbflyer]

Alaska resident. Never been sheep hunting. I have dealt with lots of sports. That $20K pull of the trigger is going to be a lot of added pressure. Payment in full 90 days prior to the trip is the way. The shock of the big check you just wrote as the hunter is over. As the guide you can still be honorable, display integrity and respect to your customer and your quarry. The money part, which is so powerful to so many that it even ruins lifelong friendships, will be over.

This is not opinion, it’s experience. Hope you have a great season.

 

[IBen]

If DBMR really believes in his business plan he will take 30 k up front and return 20k if the tag is not filled, which has already been suggested and ignored. The client needs to be prepared to have that much on hand anyway so it is essentially the same but the psychology is very different…

 

[Mojave]

Alaska resident. Never been sheep hunting. I have dealt with lots of sports. That $20K pull of the trigger is going to be a lot of added pressure. Payment in full 90 days prior to the trip is the way. The shock of the big check you just wrote as the hunter is over. As the guide you can still be honorable, display integrity and respect to your customer and your quarry. The money part, which is so powerful to so many that it even ruins lifelong friendships, will be over.

This is not opinion, it’s experience. Hope you have a great season.

I like that a lot.

I just put a 100% deposit on a chamois hunt in Austria 3200 Euros. I have another chamois hunt in Slovenia a month later, it is only a 700 Euro deposit, plus a trophy fee. I am not looking forward to either experience, but knowing I am done with Austria is really comforting.

Knowing I can get to Austria and Slovenia in a day even if the war here in Europe really spreads is great.

I have a 1500 Euro deposit on a hunt in Hungary for July. I don't know what the final bill is, but I am nervous about it.

You would think that laying out 3200 Euros was more of an assburn that the other 2200. But at least I know with the 3200 I am done.

 

[david2duck]

As others have stated you probably want to consider the blood/kill for the trophy fee. It’s the cleanest and can’t be disputed. This is what they do in other countries and it works.

For those that don’t think it would work I can’t get behind your argument. It was how guides/outfitters operated for years and how a lot of the world still operates.

My buddy just did a 12 day sheep hunt in Canada and we never saw a legal ram. Only one guy in camp was successful. 3 of 4 hunters didn’t see a legal ram.

I say give it a go. Time will tell if you are full of it or if you are legit and the model works. If the later you’ll be booked for the next 10 years.

 

[alaska_bou]

My buddy just did a 12 day sheep hunt in Canada and we never saw a legal ram. Only one guy in camp was successful. 3 of 4 hunters didn’t see a legal ram.

Can I ask where you hunted, or which province? I heard of guys coming home without finding legal rams from Arctic Red this past season, just curious.

 

[TreeWalking]

The “shot opportunity” is going to be subjective and eventually lead to an issue. 15k hunt, 15k trophy fee if ram is wounded or killed.

Run the numbers on how many hunters you can take per year X the base hunt price you want to charge. Assume no one pays a trophy fee all year just to be conservative. If you can live with $8k per hunter then do it, but I imagine you will want to increase that number.

If the hunter is going to ultimately need to be good for $30k before starting the hunt, the small base price is only a sales tactic to get bookings, and has downside risk only for you.

Agreed. Is one thing to draw blood without getting an animal on the ground. Is not acceptable for me to trigger the trophy fee if merely pass on an animal the guide says is legal and at an ethical distance for the conditions. Is not acceptable to trigger the trophy fee if shoot then is a clean miss. Realistically, the recent rates of sheep hunting success in Alaska is fueling the need to think outside the box on pricing/marketing these hunts that increasingly involve an unpunched tag.

 

[david2duck]

Can I ask where you hunted, or which province? I heard of guys coming home without finding legal rams from Arctic Red this past season, just curious.

Alberta

 

[TWHrunner]

Alberta

Yeah, legal rams are not everywhere. It took me 7 seasons and well over 100 days to get my first as a resident.

 

[cbeard64]

I enjoyed listening to you on the recent podcast. Obviously you are a respected and accomplished sheep hunter and anyone would be fortunate to have you as a guide.

We will just have to agree to disagree on whether or not your approach is sound. No doubt the your basic hunt price structure will gain you all the bookings you can handle and be a huge benefit to your clients - as they will be getting the services of a top-notch sheep guide under a very favorable pricing structure.


My issue is that 1) it’s always a poor business decision to undercharge for the product provided and 2) your stated goal in doing so (to restore credibility to the guiding profession and change the current pricing structure), while very laudable, is more broad than one guide alone can accomplish just by offering a favorable pricing structure.

If that’s actually your goal, you can have way more impact by simply doing what you are currently doing - using your platform as an accomplished sheep hunter to let folks know the situation with certain guides/areas and to do their homework. A financially successful guiding business being will allow you to have even more impact in spreading that message. I am from TX and I already know that you are a skilled, passionate hunter who will be an honest and accomplished guide just by your successes and the company you keep.

I have known that there are honest outfitters and shady outfitters for most all of my adult life. This is true in every profession. Anyone with a working and sound mind knows this. Despite this, I have never had a bad outfitter on multiple sheep, mountain goat, bear, elk, mule deer, and pronghorn hunts. Some have been great but all have been very good. All were people of integrity and credibility even though most charged 100% up front for the hunt. How was I able to find such good outfits? A little luck and a lot of research.

Educating people on what to look for in an outfitter and how to make sure folks have the tools to get the information will have way more impact to restore credibility and integrity in the guiding profession than how you decide to structure your own personal guide fee. A guide’s integrity and credibility is based on who he is, his actions vs. words, and how he treats his clients. These are way more important than his pricing structure or what anyone else does.

Again, I’m not picking at your structure per se, just that I think you will find 8K up front is much too low.

Finally, your “opportunity fee” is not the way to go. A standard draw blood/kill trophy fee would be much better. The reasons are set forth above so I’m not going to beat that dead horse any more.

IMO your responses in this thread and on the podcast indicate to me you are set on doing it exactly the way you propose and are not really open to suggestions or the possibility of doing some things differently. Please consider if that might be the case. I’m not saying that to be confrontational or disrespectful. On the contrary, you seem like just the kind of guy the hunting world needs more of and I want you to succeed so you will be a positive influence on hunting for years to come. That’s why I typed all that at the risk of beating a dead horse.

Good luck with your venture.

 

[BRWNBR]

I have been guiding Alaska 25 years and my own business for 19 of those years. Having dealt with the financial aspect of a hunt from the guides side I would agree with those that say take it all up front and YOU be the one to give money back if they don’t tag. Otherwise you’re gonna get screwed. It. Will. Happen. There will be times you won’t get paid. Bottom line is people suck sometimes. Just the nature of humanity. But when it comes to feeding your family put the choices in your hands if you know you have the integrity and courage to do what’s right no matter what.

Also I would add if your sheep hunting is as good as your selling it to be just charge 5k less than everyone else and produce sheep. Keep it simple. One lump sum. No arguments over a drop of blood or a hit or a check not clearing or “opportunity”. You’ll sleep a lot better.

 

[Nickziegler]

If any advise take Jake's. BRWNBR. stand up guide outfitter. Good to hear from you again on here Jake!

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[garrett_hartley]

In 2024 I will be starting my own outfitting business in Alaska. Sheep, interior grizzly, coastal brown bears and caribou will be the animals that I intend to offer limited quality backpack style hunts at affordable prices.

I've been sheep hunting/guiding in Alaska for 24 years. I'm a local full time Alaska resident of the interior as well.

I have been working for an outfitter on a federal concession that I am a huge advocate for and plan to submit proposals until I acquire one. In the meantime, I plan to work the draw areas in the interior where I have years of guiding and personal hunts and offer some OTC areas as well.

The title of the thread is "Alaska Sheep Hunting Prices".

I wanted to get some nonresident hunters' opinions who have hunted or might be planning a sheep hunt in the near future. I've been in this business for the last few years as an assistant guide and have seen prices going so high that many folks are throwing their hands up with the thought, they are never going to be able to afford these hunts. And then not to mention the dropping of success percentages in the last few years many nonresidents are seeing in Alaska and in Canadian concessions as well.

I'm considering a hunt price structure on the majority of the hunt on a trophy fee basis only. Example would be as follows:
$8K Dall sheep 12-day hunt (10 actual hunt days......1 day going in travel and 1 day going out in travel)
$20K trophy fee on a Dall sheep SUCCESFUL LEGAL RAM 10-day hunt OR if a legal ram was presented under 400yds with a decent chance of a successful shot.
Client pays the air charter fee directly to the air charter company, but I would make all flight arrangements ($2K estimate for round trip)
$30K all in if successful/had a shot opportunity.
$10K all in if NOT successful

Again, this is in the pre planning stages but I really wanted to get hunters or future hunters' opinions on a fee structure like this. Pro's and cons's.

To the heart of my core, I just can't charge fully for a product IF I can't deliver that product. I had my very first unsuccessful client hunt last year that I was not able to provide a shot opportunity on the client's primary animal (this hunt was a Dall sheep/Griz/Caribou). Owning outfitter would never have considered giving any kind of refund to the client even though the number of miles covered (62 miles), attitude of the hunter was outstanding, and weather was not a factor. Just no sheep available in this area of the concession (this area is over 350 miles from the area that I plan to conduct hunts in)

I know there is a lot of variables that can affect a successful hunt (weather, client's preparedness just to name a few) but for the most part I feel if a guide can't produce results, they should not be compensated FULLY bottom line. Again, that is my opinion.

I am not here trying to solicit hunts or anything like that. I have gotten opinions from other guides and booking agents (almost ALL of them are negative to this line of thinking on pricing). Now I am here for the "clients" view on this.

Thoughts??

Thanks in advance for your constructive input. Look forward to reading any comments.

Sounds to me like a pretty sweet option for you and us as the hunters. I’d book with you for that price. Prices are only going to go up as time goes on. In the other hand from a business mindset, I think you will get clients who would pay $30k regardless of success or not. Yes it’s a guided hunt however your paying for the experience and years of knowledge and we simply cannot expect to be successful on every single hunt we go on. That’s why it’s called hunting. Honestly $10k isn’t a bad price for a trip like that. People pay that to sit at a beach resort and drink watered down mixers lol. Being $10k is better for the client who gets the full experience, trip of a lifetime, who is unsuccessful in their harvest yet still reaping the benefits of just being out there away from everything and really being one with the lord and all his creation. Being a straight $30k with no trophy fee is better for you because you’re getting the $30k regardless. Just depends on how you as a person wants to be and what type of guide you are. Offering the trip for $10k imo is worth it and if successful the extra $20k would be too. But knowing if unsuccessful the sting won’t hurt as bad saving $20k lol

 

[PoorUSMC]

Curious how this is working out? Think it’s a great idea

 

[DBMR]

Curious how this is working out? Think it’s a great idea

Thanks for the encouragement. Currently I am sold out through 2027 with two hunts per year in 2024, 25, 26 and 27. I went with a $15K initial hunt cost and a $15K opportunity fee on a legal ram for my final pricing structure. I have a few other minor costs increases IF the cost of doing business goes up through 2027 written into the contracts but it is nothing more than fuel sur-charges etc.

 

[TheWhitetailNut]

I know this is an old thread but wanted to weigh in: As a client, I like your concept. But only for the reason's I know as a business owner. I'll have a low investment, and a low cost for lack of preparation. In short, you'll probably attract the kind of clients nobody would want.

I see you're up and running, curious how it will be in a couple years.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

I know this is an old thread but wanted to weigh in: As a client, I like your concept. But only for the reason's I know as a business owner. I'll have a low investment, and a low cost for lack of preparation. In short, you'll probably attract the kind of clients nobody would want.

I see you're up and running, curious how it will be in a couple years.

I’m book through 2027.

I’ve got the nonresident governor’s super 7 sheep tag holder this year as well.

Why would you assume that the guys or gals looking for an outfitter with some credibility and integrity left to offer an opportunity fee based trophy hunt…..that these “kind of” clients no other outfitter would want? I’ve been running close to 100 percent on my guiding since I’ve started in the guiding business. Guided clients to 33 rams and have taken 13 of my own. With that historical percentage, these clients will be paying at or above the going rate if successful you do understand that correct?

The one thing different I am doing
from MOST outfits is taking a very low amount of sheep hunters to these areas. 1-3 per year commercially. I can almost guarantee even in these less sheep populated conditions I will get my client a ram bottom line. Many of the “regular priced” outfitters in Alaska AND Canada are 100 percent taking clients on hunts when they know for sure there are not the number of legal rams in their area! This is widely known throughout the business and smart clients are catching on. I can point to numerous non resident sheep “guiding outfits” in Alaska’s GMU 19c until that was closed down. I’d probably call them super expensive camping coordinator’s then outfitters to be more accurate.

This closure by ADFG in 19c saved so many unsuspecting non residents from fancy instagram “professional” hunters and more bad press for Alaska’s legitimate sheep hunting outfits. I do feel bad for the small time resident based responsible outfits in 19c that got caught up in this. Sucks for them and their clients.

I know you probably have little to no idea about the outfitting business in Alaska or the overall sheep hunting as a resident or guiding industry in general is all about, so l assume your comment on the type of clients that would be interested in my outfit is just out of ignorance.

A quarter of my future clients have come from this site, half from word of mouth and the last qtr from past clients.

I’ll take a client that is concerned with success and who that client spends their money with based on that potential success anytime. Send them my way please for 2028 and on hunt opportunities.


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