Alaska Sheep Hunt Pricing

[thedutchtouch]

As a client I feel like this is an attractive idea, however I'm wondering if the "barrier to entry" should be this low- meaning I wonder if you'd get more out of shape/poor shot/under prepared clients that think they want the adventure without understanding what it actually is?

Also if nobody else is doing it, why would you? As a businessman, your bottom line and your income should come first, no?

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Solid idea. When sheep was a “if I show up fit, good mindset, solid marksman, listen to the guide” I have a very high chance of killing a ram then I think the old structure works. While the population is in recovery I would be more than happy to follow your proposed structure but I’m not in a place where I would pay the full amount for extremely low opportunity (I’d just go to the Unlimited units for $1000.)

Is AK in a slump…..without question. Though I have guided 34 hunters and have taken 33 rams. Last year was the first time not getting a ram (I did have an archery hunter in 2020 that was unsuccessful but easily could have filled with rifle. In 2022 he came back and on day 2 was successful)

I am pricing this to show potential clients AK is nowhere near the doom and gloom we are reading about.
We are across the state down 50 percent or more. But guided hunts are not.

I plan to do 1 or 2 hunts a year max so the lower costs is to show these potential clients I have a good product and am willing to put my “money where my mouth is”.


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[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

This is a good price structure.

Other outfitters will be pissed.

There needs to be more of this in North America.

Thanks for the opinion. I agree with you as well. If you have a good product you should be able to back it up.


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[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Interesting proposition and best of luck in your new endeavor.

A few thoughts and questions that I am sure you've probably already pondered and received feedback on.

Why do current guides charge what they do for these hunts?

I think a big part of the answer to that is because to conduct these hunts well with a reasonable if not high chance of success, it is expensive. Insurance, wages for support staff, scouting hours, etc. etc. Combine that with the short season in Alaska and that fact that I don't think any ethical sheep guide in the state should be putting more than 2-3 sheep hunters out in their area given the status of the sheep population, there isn't a lot of wiggle room to make a living. Sure many have increased their prices because that is what the market can bear and people are willing to pay, but running these trips with support staff and airplanes is not cheap.

Another thing that I don't like about your proposed model, no offense intended, is that it fosters the idea that a client is buying an animal instead of a hunt. I feel that mindset is prevalent and problematic enough as it is in the industry and culture and I would hate to see the industry continue to foster that attitude of entitlement. I think giving some sort of financial nod to the client as a result of not harvesting, such as a discount on another trip, etc. is a positive thing. Making the majority of your compensation contingent upon killing an animal though I don't think is professional or a good thing for the industry. Your costs will be relatively fixed and I think clients should pay for a hunt and a guides best effort, not the expectation of killing something. Guided mountaineering clients pay for a mountaineering trip and a guides best effort,, not a summit. I think commercial hunting trips should be the same.

Given the status of the sheep population in the state, and that you will be dependent on transporters to get you into your areas and likely won't be able to scout, it seems to me that you will more than likely be running cheap, unsuccessful trips. No discredit to your experience and abilities of course. The animals just aren't there any more. As much as I hate to say it, a huge part of sheep success in AK, more so that in the past, is going to come down to aerial scouting for the foreseeable future.

I think your estimate of $2k round-trip for flights is way low. Does the client cover their flight and yours? Most cub trips into good sheep country start at about $3500 per person and go up from there.

Will you doing all of the guiding and work yourself or be hiring assistants and/or packers? At $8k a trip I would assume you would be doing everything yourself. Sheep season is two months long here, so at most you could run 4 sheep trips a year. Realistically 3 as the last 10 days of the season is not for the faint of heart.
If you swing and miss on each, that is $24-$32k of gross income before your expenses, which would be minimal as an owner/operator probably, but not non-existent. Is that enough to put food on your table and gas in the tank until the next round of hunts? If so, more power to you. Seems like a pretty meager living for a lot of work and not a gamble I'd be willing to take given the lack of rams on the mtn. these days. Counting on killing rams to make a living seems like a foolhardy proposition at the moment.

Good on ya for asking the question and soliciting input. I hope things work out one way or another and again best of luck.

I’m only conducting 1 or 2 at the most sheep hunts a year.
I don’t use a super cub for my transport. I use a Helio Courier which is $4K round trip. But half of that is me as the guide so I would not be charging the client that half.

I think it is as simple as supply and demand for sheep hunt costs bottom line.

I’ve guided 34 rifle hunters and have been successful 33 times. So being successful in the past is why I can pretty much count on the full rate on almost all my hunts.

I just want to change up the way guided hunts are priced. If you can’t produce a product you should not be paid. And I plan to run my hunts that way (if the hunt is not already priced back below market price). Clients are being provided a product and not a “hunt” in my opinion. I see and hear of that way too mych. Many guides collect their fees with that attitude of “I’m providing you a safe and enjoyable hunt not a kill”. I fundamentally don’t feel that way and am willing to back that up.

I know that will ruffle some but that is just my opinion.


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[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Population is not recovering in Alaska. We have set record low harvest numbers the last three years in a row. Fish and game had a public meeting in Fairbanks and the outlook was extremely pessimistic across the state. If you are going to spend crazy money on a sheep hunt go to Canada

Are we in a slump? Yes. Can you kill
Rams in Alaska? Yes without question.

One of my main reasons to price my hunts the way I plan.

Canada is also seeing the downward trends as well but increasing their hunt prices. By 2025-2026 a Dall
Sheep hunt will be $60K. Double what my successful hunters will pay. 6x the cost of my unsuccessful.


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[Theringworm]

If you are only doing 2 hunts a year and have a current 97% harvest rate, I would charge whatever the going rate for a sheep hunt is. Don’t short yourself. Success, positive attitude, safety, knowledge, a great all around experience. If you can deliver all of those year after year, you’ll have a waiting list of people wanting to hunt with you. Doesn’t mean you should over charge, but I wouldn’t recommend under charging. I applaud you for wanting to be different and do “right” in your mind, but I wouldn’t recommend this model.

 

[Snyd]

Are there any legal concerns (state or feds) regarding charging for your guide services versus "selling" Alaska wildlife? It seems that in the world of guided hunts, Trophy Fees are charged for privately owned animals when the hunter kills the critter on the private ranch, not "publicly owned" (for lack of a better term) animals killed on public (or private) land. Just curious.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Are there any legal concerns (state or feds) regarding charging for your guide services versus "selling" Alaska wildlife? It seems that in the world of guided hunts, Trophy Fees are charged for privately owned animals when the hunter kills the critter on the private ranch, not "publicly owned" (for lack of a better term) animals killed on public (or private) land. Just curious.

No legal issues with my pricing model


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[MOwhitetail]

I’m a few years from being able to afford a sheep hunt so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I really like your idea for pricing structure. If I go on a guided hunt, I have no issue paying out for a well prepared outfitter. I’ve heard enough horror stories from some older guys I know though about outfitters sleeping in, not wanting to hike hard, etc that really turns me off from wanting to pay the big bucks to someone who may not work hard. This kind of pricing structure would kind of guarantee that the client gets what they’re paying for. Best of luck to you and I’d be interested in hunting with you when I finish residency.

 

[cbeard64]

I am old enough to remember when the base hunt cost + trophy fee structure was the norm for almost all outfitted hunts. It is the most fair model for all the reasons given above. All parties should have financial skin in the game. Then the demand became so great that outfitters began to realize they had the upper hand and could ditch that model entirely.

That said, IMO the pricing structure you lay out seems too low. Something like 15K + 15K just feels more fair. Good luck!!

 

[Gravel Road]

How about if the client pulls the trigger, then they pay the trophy fee? Seems reasonable.
What about other guides? Will they be angry enough to fly over your sheep areas and cause issues? It's a small world and I'd imagine they would try to cause trouble for anyone upsetting the normal fees.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

As a client I feel like this is an attractive idea, however I'm wondering if the "barrier to entry" should be this low- meaning I wonder if you'd get more out of shape/poor shot/under prepared clients that think they want the adventure without understanding what it actually is?

Also if nobody else is doing it, why would you? As a businessman, your bottom line and your income should come first, no?

There is a lot in the guiding and outfitter world that is “business as normal” that I would never emulate. I’ve been doing the assistant guide thing for 20yrs and have learned more what NOT TO DO than what to do.

I agree on the bottom line deal but I still need to weigh the ethics of not providing a “product”. I don’t believe the majority of clients I have guided cared as much of the experience as being a successful harvesting trip. And if I have saved for years to afford a hunt, I feel my price structure would be the type I would gravitate towards.


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[IBen]

There is a lot in the guiding and outfitter world that is “business as normal” that I would never emulate. I’ve been doing the assistant guide thing for 20yrs and have learned more what NOT TO DO than what to do.

I agree on the bottom line deal but I still need to weigh the ethics of not providing a “product”. I don’t believe the majority of clients I have guided cared as much of the experience as being a successful harvesting trip. And if I have saved for years to afford a hunt, I feel my price structure would be the type I would gravitate towards.


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so have you been doing this pricing for 20 years or have been assistant guiding for 20 years? Are you the OP posting from a different account? Assistant guides can’t do hunt contracts.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

How about if the client pulls the trigger, then they pay the trophy fee? Seems reasonable.
What about other guides? Will they be angry enough to fly over your sheep areas and cause issues? It's a small world and I'd imagine they would try to cause trouble for anyone upsetting the normal fees.

Well my price structure will be (that I’ve asked opinions) if I provide a legal ram for the client under 400yds they have fulfilled the trophy fee portion of my hunt price structure.

I’m only doing 1 or 2 hunts a year for sheep so I am “small time” in this business. Hopefully that won’t happen but I would not put it past this industry. The only thing guides hate worse than resident hunters is other guides.


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[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

so have you been doing this pricing for 20 years or have been assistant guiding for 20 years? Are you the OP posting from a different account? Assistant guides can’t do hunt contracts.

I think my accounts are linked together unfortunately. DBMR is short for Double Broomed Mtn Rifles.


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[Nickziegler]

I like the price structure you have proposed but like others have said I think you need to cover yourself a bit more. With prices like that you could end up getting someone super out of shape who has never been on the mountain before but wants to "try" sheep hunting because hey its not that much money if i dont get one. He gives up on day 1 and your out a bunch of money you could have gained with someone willing to put in the work and effort to get their sheep. I have seen some sheep hunts somewhere in BC for stones that have a trophy fee structure but I believe that route was more than there competitors if the hunter was successful but less if not.

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[the hack]

I trust the OP to determine the economic viability of his model, the fitness and suitability of his client for his hunt and if he's "covering his costs". Put another way, everyone has a different way of looking at how they enrich themself by their vocation (money, memories, reputation, etc).

If the hunt quality is good, there's a reasonable chance to harvest, and the guide/outfitter feels right I'd book this hunt irrespective of its price structure (As a consumer I'd definitely figure out my total costs).

Quality always sells.

Best of luck.

 

[7maggr]

In 2024 I will be starting my own outfitting business in Alaska. Sheep, interior grizzly, coastal brown bears and caribou will be the animals that I intend to offer limited quality backpack style hunts at affordable prices.

I've been sheep hunting/guiding in Alaska for 24 years. I'm a local full time Alaska resident of the interior as well.

I have been working for an outfitter on a federal concession that I am a huge advocate for and plan to submit proposals until I acquire one. In the meantime, I plan to work the draw areas in the interior where I have years of guiding and personal hunts and offer some OTC areas as well.

The title of the thread is "Alaska Sheep Hunting Prices".

I wanted to get some nonresident hunters' opinions who have hunted or might be planning a sheep hunt in the near future. I've been in this business for the last few years as an assistant guide and have seen prices going so high that many folks are throwing their hands up with the thought, they are never going to be able to afford these hunts. And then not to mention the dropping of success percentages in the last few years many nonresidents are seeing in Alaska and in Canadian concessions as well.

I'm considering a hunt price structure on the majority of the hunt on a trophy fee basis only. Example would be as follows:
$8K Dall sheep 12-day hunt (10 actual hunt days......1 day going in travel and 1 day going out in travel)
$20K trophy fee on a Dall sheep SUCCESFUL LEGAL RAM 10-day hunt OR if a legal ram was presented under 400yds with a decent chance of a successful shot.
Client pays the air charter fee directly to the air charter company, but I would make all flight arrangements ($2K estimate for round trip)
$30K all in if successful/had a shot opportunity.
$10K all in if NOT successful

Again, this is in the pre planning stages but I really wanted to get hunters or future hunters' opinions on a fee structure like this. Pro's and cons's.

To the heart of my core, I just can't charge fully for a product IF I can't deliver that product. I had my very first unsuccessful client hunt last year that I was not able to provide a shot opportunity on the client's primary animal (this hunt was a Dall sheep/Griz/Caribou). Owning outfitter would never have considered giving any kind of refund to the client even though the number of miles covered (62 miles), attitude of the hunter was outstanding, and weather was not a factor. Just no sheep available in this area of the concession (this area is over 350 miles from the area that I plan to conduct hunts in)

I know there is a lot of variables that can affect a successful hunt (weather, client's preparedness just to name a few) but for the most part I feel if a guide can't produce results, they should not be compensated FULLY bottom line. Again, that is my opinion.

I am not here trying to solicit hunts or anything like that. I have gotten opinions from other guides and booking agents (almost ALL of them are negative to this line of thinking on pricing). Now I am here for the "clients" view on this.

Thoughts??

Thanks in advance for your constructive input. Look forward to reading any comments.

I like the way you are thinking on this.
I have been blessed to have one and an half slams and have not had an unsuccessful sheep hunt. Yet.
But as much as I want to continue to hunt Sheep, I am very hesitant to book a hunt at today’s prices.
I get it that the Outfitter has plenty on the line. But the pricing structure you are talking about would just be added incentive for both parties.

 

[wind gypsy]

I like the idea, dont see why you would do it if you have a good product though. I'd definitely weigh the base price more heavily at least.

The shot opportunity thing seems reasonable to me, its just that most hunters are total dogshit at shooting and those paying big $ for a sheep hunt aren't immune from that so i could see some possible issues there.

 

[WCB]

If you are only doing 1 or 2 hunts a year I think you can be fairly selective on your clients. Know they are in shape and get to know their expectations really well. I would flip your pricing and make more money up front and less on the back end.

Keep in mind a problem could arise if there is a legal sheep in front of you and you hold the client off because the ram is "young" or he asks your opinion and you "think" you can do better OR are chasing a really big ram and a smaller legal ram steps out and you avoid shooting it to stay after the bigger ram which may not be found again....etc. I would make it iron clad that client is to shoot ANY LEGAL RAM or decline at their own discretion but are on the hook for the balance. (because of this I would record these sheep interactions for verifiable proof you discussed legality with the client and THEY declined).