Alaska Dall Sheep - Undersubscribed Non-Res Draw Hunts

[WalterH]

I am curious to get some other takes on this situation. I have a few thoughts, but will hold them for now.

Got this email from ADFG yesterday.




Undersubscribed in this context means more permits were available for these hunts than were applied for in the draw. ADFG has left over draw tags available for two non-res, guided Dall Sheep hunts for the coming season. And now they are offering up another chance to apply for them.

As some additional context and insight into a few of my thoughts, most coveted sheep draw tags, such as these, have less than a 1% chance to draw as a resident. Many residents have been applying for sheep tags for 15-20 years without having drawn one.

 

[fatlander]

The reason for this is really apparent. . . Guide requirements for nonresidents is the barrier to entry.

I think anything that doesn’t go in the first go around should be open to everyone, regardless of residency. But I’m not from your state so Rokslide says I’m not allowed to have an opinion about wildlife management there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Geewhiz]

As some additional context and insight into a few of my thoughts, most coveted sheep draw tags, such as these, have less than a 1% chance to draw as a resident. Many residents have been applying for sheep tags for 15-20 years without having drawn one.

If there is so much demand for these permits from residents, why is it that nonresidents aren't applying for these permits? Legitimate question

 

[deadwolf]

If there is so much demand for these permits from residents, why is it that nonresidents aren't applying for these permits? Legitimate question

A non resident has to have a guide no matter if in a draw or open unit. My guess is most non res might look to an open unit with 100% odds rather than chance not drawing a tag in a restricted draw unit. And with guides as booked up as they are, most non res are booking far in advance and can’t count on drawing the tag. But, there could be more than one possibility I suppose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WalterH]

I think anything that doesn’t go in the first go around should be open to everyone, regardless of residency.

I agree. In this case, non-res had a chance and they weren't interested. Everyone should get a chance in the second offering rather than the state lobbying for more business for the guides.

As to why there was no interest in the first round, the status of the sheep population in AK is probably most significant contributing factor. It seems like the pool of people willing to pay $30k for a likely skunking is getting smaller every year.

 

[WalterH]

A non resident has to have a guide no matter if in a draw or open unit. My guess is most non res might look to an open unit with 100% odds rather than chance not drawing a tag in a restricted draw unit. And with guides as booked up as they are, most non res are booking far in advance and can’t count on drawing the tag. But, there could be more than one possibility I suppose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Non-res can hunt some draw tags and HT hunts with 2nd degree of kindred. These, however, are limited to only guided non-res...

 

[Steve O]

Too hard and $30,000?

 

[Scottf270]

These tags may be in an area that one guide has all to himself. He may only take a certain number of clients in order to "manage" his area. He may only have the time, guides, or equipment to take a smaller number of hunters.

At this time in the sheep population cycle, fewer hunters and less harvest isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Nick Muche]

Several guides in these areas. I'd guess spending 30K or more on an archery sheep hunt doesn't appeal to many.

 

[william schmaltz]

Are guides charging $30k for walk in hunts?

 

[Nick Muche]

Not sure why they wouldn't.

 

[wind gypsy]

I see one outfitter listing a 14C hunt for $20.5k. Edit: another's website says $20k but it also references the 2020 application season right next to it

Has this fallen that far? Might be worth a swing for someone who felt like the sheep hunt oppurtunity passed them up when hunts got to $30k+

 

[WalterH]

These tags may be in an area that one guide has all to himself. He may only take a certain number of clients in order to "manage" his area. He may only have the time, guides, or equipment to take a smaller number of hunters.

At this time in the sheep population cycle, fewer hunters and less harvest isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The state only offered up one tag for each of these hunts, meaning no one applied for either.

 

[pirogue]

A non resident has to have a guide no matter if in a draw or open unit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like the Guides and Outfitters Assoc are in bed with the commission worse than WY, requiring a guide for only Wilderness.

 

[MBN]

There was a change to DS241 that seems to have been a oversight from AKF&G I believe. The way that it was this year a non res that would go with 2nd degree of kindred(Didn't need a guide) couldn't apply for it without having a contract with a guide. Which I would think stopped the usual applicants from applying for the one tag that is awarded for that hunt. There wasn't a way for non residents using the 2nd degree of kindred to apply for those 14C hunts. Same with DS240. They required a guide contract also. Curious if that will change or not next year.

 

[Snyd]

If there is so much demand for these permits from residents, why is it that nonresidents aren't applying for these permits? Legitimate question

AK splits up the available tags between residents and non residents. These two tags (1 each area) are for non resident hunters only to apply for. DS232 the same hunt for residents is DS231, 6 tags available. DS241 24 tags for residents.

 

[johnnycake]

There was a change to DS241 that seems to have been a oversight from AKF&G I believe. The way that it was this year a non res that would go with 2nd degree of kindred(Didn't need a guide) couldn't apply for it without having a contract with a guide. Which I would think stopped the usual applicants from applying for the one tag that is awarded for that hunt. There wasn't a way for non residents using the 2nd degree of kindred to apply for those 14C hunts. Same with DS240. They required a guide contract also. Curious if that will change or not next year.

Pretty sure it was deliberate and not an oversight. I roughly remember this raising eyebrows and discussion in the proposal phase a while back but getting approved anyway.

 

[william schmaltz]

Pretty sure it was deliberate and not an oversight. I roughly remember this raising eyebrows and discussion in the proposal phase a while back but getting approved anyway.

I believe it came through in 2022. And then last year the same individual who got it passed was back at the BOG meeting with a new proposal because the unintended consequences of the original change was that the tags they were allotted were not the premium ones for the unit. That more specific proposal was shot down.

 

[Htm84]

The outfitter set aside tags are pretty limp dick. At a minimum they should be open to all NR. For the guided set asides last year in the DCUA they had 5 leftover out of 7. But somehow you still only had a 58 percent chance of drawing. The two resident tags had almost 10,000 apps for like 70 tags.

 

[MountainBoat]

Although it specifies "guided nonresidents", next of kin can apply for these tags too, right?