Advice needed - cold bore issue, maybe?

[welkin]

Been having an issue with my rifle. It's a 6.5 creed Tikka superlite with a swaro z3 3-10x42 and talley rings. Recently I had the barrel cut to 18" and threaded for a suppressor (which I don't have yet) and seemingly that's when this issue started.

Basically it seems like the first time I shoot the rifle one day to the next, the shot is about 6" off at 100 yards. The first time I shot it after having the barrel shortened, I was checking the zero at 100 so it didn't surprise me a lot that the first shot was off, and I don't exactly remember how the rest of the shots played out that day. The only other time I shot the rifle until a few days ago, it was at 300 yards and I wound up having a shot totally off paper, while all my other shots were acceptable. I didn't suspect it was the first shot since I didn't check the target till I had fired 4 times. I figured it was my error.

The problem came to ahead a few days ago when I was deer hunting. I shot at a deer prone with a bipod and my backpack as a back rest from 220 yards and had a clean miss. I did rush the shot but I was a bit surprised I missed since it felt good. The next day I found another buck. This time he was only 135 yards away. I shot prone with the bipod and the backrest again. He was not moving and not behind any brush. I also remembered my miss and took time to control my breathing. I hit him, but the shot was about five inches from the shot I thought I was taking. This time I was really surprised and I had to take a follow up shot, which was perfect.

Today on a hunch, I took the rifle out and the pattern confirmed itself. First shot, six inches or so high. Let the barrel cool completely, and the next shot was good. I let it cool again and same result. Every subsequent shot on a hot barrel was good as well, I shot a sub moa 4 round group at 100 yards. Very perplexed why only the first shot is off every time, but apparently not because of barrel temperature. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[Bowfinn]

Been having an issue with my rifle. It's a 6.5 creed Tikka superlite with a swaro z3 3-10x42 and talley rings. Recently I had the barrel cut to 18" and threaded for a suppressor (which I don't have yet) and seemingly that's when this issue started.

Basically it seems like the first time I shoot the rifle one day to the next, the shot is about 6" off at 100 yards. The first time I shot it after having the barrel shortened, I was checking the zero at 100 so it didn't surprise me a lot that the first shot was off, and I don't exactly remember how the rest of the shots played out that day. The only other time I shot the rifle until a few days ago, it was at 300 yards and I wound up having a shot totally off paper, while all my other shots were acceptable. I didn't suspect it was the first shot since I didn't check the target till I had fired 4 times. I figured it was my error.

The problem came to ahead a few days ago when I was deer hunting. I shot at a deer prone with a bipod and my backpack as a back rest from 220 yards and had a clean miss. I did rush the shot but I was a bit surprised I missed since it felt good. The next day I found another buck. This time he was only 135 yards away. I shot prone with the bipod and the backrest again. He was not moving and not behind any brush. I also remembered my miss and took time to control my breathing. I hit him, but the shot was about five inches from the shot I thought I was taking. This time I was really surprised and I had to take a follow up shot, which was perfect.

Today on a hunch, I took the rifle out and the pattern confirmed itself. First shot, six inches or so high. Let the barrel cool completely, and the next shot was good. I let it cool again and same result. Every subsequent shot on a hot barrel was good as well, I shot a sub moa 4 round group at 100 yards. Very perplexed why only the first shot is off every time, but apparently not because of barrel temperature. Anyone have any ideas?

I would check to see if the recoil lug is fully seated in the action. My guess is the stock was took off to thread the barrel and it wasn’t seated correctly when put back on. The pressure port circled in the picture should be low enough in the stock that if it drops any at all it will start to disappear.
To get the action correctly into the recoil lug I like to start with the action slightly too far forward, and squeeze the action and stock together while punching the action backwards. You will hear and feel the recoil lug seat when you do it this way.

 

[ropeup79]

I would check that the recoil lug is in the recoil slot of the action correctly and that the action screws are torqued to spec.

 

[KenLee]

Is he cleaning the bore after every outing?
If so, stop!
If not, check the tightness of action screws and scope mounts. Next mount a known good scope to try.

 

[Megalodon]

weak rear support

 

[welkin]

I would check that the recoil lug is in the recoil slot of the action correctly and that the action screws are torqued to spec.

I did quite a bit of hunting in the rain this October and afterwards I always disassemble to dry off the rifle. There's no issue with the lug that I can see.

I also barely ever clean the thing so that's not it. I will check the other bolts.

Not sure it could be weak rear support because I tend to apply a lot of forward pressure from my shoulder when shooting off the bipod

 

[wind gypsy]

I like the check on recoil lug and action screws. Try a different known scope. Talleys aren't cracked?

 

[Formidilosus]

Been having an issue with my rifle. It's a 6.5 creed Tikka superlite with a swaro z3 3-10x42 and talley rings. Recently I had the barrel cut to 18" and threaded for a suppressor (which I don't have yet) and seemingly that's when this issue started.

Basically it seems like the first time I shoot the rifle one day to the next, the shot is about 6" off at 100 yards. The first time I shot it after having the barrel shortened, I was checking the zero at 100 so it didn't surprise me a lot that the first shot was off, and I don't exactly remember how the rest of the shots played out that day. The only other time I shot the rifle until a few days ago, it was at 300 yards and I wound up having a shot totally off paper, while all my other shots were acceptable. I didn't suspect it was the first shot since I didn't check the target till I had fired 4 times. I figured it was my error.

The problem came to ahead a few days ago when I was deer hunting. I shot at a deer prone with a bipod and my backpack as a back rest from 220 yards and had a clean miss. I did rush the shot but I was a bit surprised I missed since it felt good. The next day I found another buck. This time he was only 135 yards away. I shot prone with the bipod and the backrest again. He was not moving and not behind any brush. I also remembered my miss and took time to control my breathing. I hit him, but the shot was about five inches from the shot I thought I was taking. This time I was really surprised and I had to take a follow up shot, which was perfect.

Today on a hunch, I took the rifle out and the pattern confirmed itself. First shot, six inches or so high. Let the barrel cool completely, and the next shot was good. I let it cool again and same result. Every subsequent shot on a hot barrel was good as well, I shot a sub moa 4 round group at 100 yards. Very perplexed why only the first shot is off every time, but apparently not because of barrel temperature. Anyone have any ideas?

It is not a “cold bore issue”- absolutely not that.


In order of likelihood-

1). The barrel wasn’t torqued back on tight enough- this is relatively common with lots of gunsmiths.

2). The muzzle device isn’t torqued enough.

3). The scope is broken.

4). The rings are damaged/broken.

5). The recoil lug isn’t seated correctly- this usually results in large groups, not a first shot shift.

 

[doverpack12]

A lot of gunsmiths have to pull scope and rings to thread. I would remount everything after degreasing and then torque with your chosen thread locker.
Gunsmiths like grease and oil, a lot of the old timers don’t like dry, degreased, and locked down.

 

[welkin]

A lot of gunsmiths have to pull scope and rings to thread. I would remount everything after degreasing and then torque with your chosen thread locker.
Gunsmiths like grease and oil, a lot of the old timers don’t like dry, degreased, and locked down.

It is not a “cold bore issue”- absolutely not that.


In order of likelihood-

1). The barrel wasn’t torqued back on tight enough- this is relatively common with lots of gunsmiths.

2). The muzzle device isn’t torqued enough.

3). The scope is broken.

4). The rings are damaged/broken.

5). The recoil lug isn’t seated correctly- this usually results in large groups, not a first shot shift.

No muzzle device on it yet aside from an adapter for the suppressor. The rings do not appear damaged in any way and they are not loose at all. I can't see how the recoil lug could be the issue, this has a Stocky's with a mountain tactical recoil lug and there doesn't really seem to be a way for it to be seated incorrectly. So #1 or #3 remain.

A lot of gunsmiths have to pull scope and rings to thread. I would remount everything after degreasing and then torque with your chosen thread locker.
Gunsmiths like grease and oil, a lot of the old timers don’t like dry, degreased, and locked down.

I just noticed that the scope was taken off and remounted, but like I said it's on tight.

Tomorrow I will call the gunsmith to discuss with him. I will also try to shoot it again just to be sure. I have an elk tag that opens on the 16th so I need this thing to be working.

 

[KHntr]

Pull the scope tonight. Pull the rings. Inspect for cracks.

 

[Megalodon]

SMH the parrots are out in full force. None of this explains why it's only on the first shot of the day. Unless it's the gremlins that come out over night and readjust everything so it shoots 6" high first thing, then is perfectly on even after completely cooling.

Weak rear support has nothing to do with how much "forward" pressure you put. It's what's underneath the butt. You have a loose rear bag, or a jankey pack you're shooting off of. Rifle never really reaches natural point of aim, recoil forces the butt down into the rest and shot goes high. Now the rifle is settled, you are focusing a little harder, squeezing the rear bag better, etc. and the shots are on. I've seen this happen lots in competition shooting/training, and could imagine it's a factor in rushed or time sensitive shots off a field improvised position, especially at extended distance.

 

[TaperPin]

First thing I’d do is swap that scope.

 

[wapitibob]

I think it's a shooter position problem

 

[Macintosh]

If its a completely new issue and it was NOT doing this before even when shooting from the exact same positions, then my suspicion would be a loose scope mount or loose action screws. Regardless of how it feels, I would personally be stripping it down and re-torquing every screw myself including a threadlocker with witness marks. Action screws making certain the action is seated on the recoil lug, base screws, and ring mount and cap screws, all that are relevant for how you have it mounted. When I have had inexplicable Issues like this it’s so far always been either a loose screw or a broken scope.

Regardless, time to get methodical about it and take notes so you can diagnose and solve.

 

[welkin]

SMH the parrots are out in full force. None of this explains why it's only on the first shot of the day. Unless it's the gremlins that come out over night and readjust everything so it shoots 6" high first thing, then is perfectly on even after completely cooling.

Weak rear support has nothing to do with how much "forward" pressure you put. It's what's underneath the butt. You have a loose rear bag, or a jankey pack you're shooting off of. Rifle never really reaches natural point of aim, recoil forces the butt down into the rest and shot goes high. Now the rifle is settled, you are focusing a little harder, squeezing the rear bag better, etc. and the shots are on. I've seen this happen lots in competition shooting/training, and could imagine it's a factor in rushed or time sensitive shots off a field improvised position, especially at extended distance.

Unfortunately I need to swallow my pride and admit it's my fault. I went out again this morning and did a ton of dry firing, got into a very solid shooting position, and applied an extreme amount of focus. My first three shots are the lower ones in that horizontal line. The next four are in that beautiful cluster. At least I know now, as embarrassing as it is to expose myself as a fraud and a hack in front of a bunch of strangers. I knew I had some degree of a flinch but I think it's become worse after firing without ear pro a few times recently. To be fair I do not practice prone shooting all that much, spent more time seated, kneeling, and offhand. Thanks for all the input.