Action Design For Hunting

[Kjc103]

IMO, you have done a great job being respectful while too many others frankly have not done so. Also, IMO, for a forum to function as a useful tool of information for a large group it is important for everyone to be respectful, and I don't think that has been the case in the case of this discussion. I seem to be in the minority, but I think you deserve better.

I appreciate that, thank you.

I think the core issue is that most these guys just don’t understand what I’m actually saying. I’m trying to describe a rifle design that is, for the most part, European.

 

[K9kodi]

I’m going to stir some sh*t up with this post, no doubt. So trigger warning if you’re trying to keep your blood pressure down.

I think the fatal flaw in the Tikka action for hunting is that it is not rock solid safe to carry a round in the chamber. If you do carry it hot, even if it’s unlikely, that safety can be flicked off and that trigger can snag on any number of things and go off. To a lesser extent, the bolt could flip open, though I have never personally had that happen.

This is the only reason I have not gone all in on a Rokstok-Tikka build. I am 1,000 percent convinced of every other argument for that action, I have had one before. It’s just as smooth as a $1,500 custom actions (maybe smoother), it’s durable, the trigger is excellent and reliable, etc etc. All undeniable.

I have a dozen or so custom’s built on 700 custom clones. They’re all collecting dust right now for the same reason. In fact, they’re probably worse in this regard. I did have a stiller long action safety get bumped going through brush once.

The best safety designs? Blaser R8 (Sauer 505 too), Ruger M77. The blaser cannot possibly fire, there is no energy in the firing pin. It is totally inert until cocked. The M77 locks all the way back and snug against the bolt. It’s not protruding, it has zero play, and you can physically see metal on metal blocking that firing pin from dropping. The edge goes to the blaser design here but I’ll argue all day the merits of the M77. They’re rock freaking solid. Unfortunately, there’s just not a lot of good aftermarket options for a modern lightweight stock.

The Winchester model 70 and any similar with the largish blade are better than tikka/remington but I’m only like 85 percent confident carrying an M70. I want to be 100 percent. The safety is always a little loose fitting and not confidence inspiring.

I’m open to the MCR Marshall whenever that comes out. I’ll buy one and try it.

I guess your screwed if your one of those guys who enshrines and trust completely theirs and others Safetey on a mechanical device.

Safeties are there limit accidents, not stop them. Decisions you make limit or stop accidents. Kudos to you for choosing the safest gun to carry hot relying on a mechanism. I’ll still with my tikkas and car and such and just do my best to make sound decisions.

Accidents happen I get it, but being conscious about where you are and what your doing helps.

 

[Idhunter777]

I couldn't imagine more of a non-issue to focus on while putting together a rifle.

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

I agree

 

[Formidilosus]

I appreciate that, thank you.

I think the core issue is that most these guys just don’t understand what I’m actually saying. I’m trying to describe a rifle design that is, for the most part, European.

In rereading this thread, and having interacted with you a bit- it seems the issue is a bit of people not understanding what you were actually trying to get to (me included); and you not articulating what it is that you meant.

I can get down with- “rifles would be better if when you put the safety on, that action caused them to be decocked”. That is logical and defensible.
However, you lost it with “I wouldn’t carry a tikka because of the safety- but I want to carry a rifle chambered and with an 8oz trigger”. Yeah no.


In other words- your presentation was that a Tikka has some glaring problem- which factually they do not; while simultaneously saying that you think a sub 1lb trigger is good, even after you had an ND with it. It’s a break in logical consistency, premise, and reality.

 

[Kjc103]

In rereading this thread, and having interacted with you a bit- it seems the issue is a bit of people not understanding what you were actually trying to get to (me included); and you not articulating what it is that you meant.

I can get down with- “rifles would be better if when you put the safety on, that action caused them to be decocked”. That is logical and defensible.
However, you lost it with “I wouldn’t carry a tikka because of the safety- but I want to carry a rifle chambered and with an 8oz trigger”. Yeah no.


In other words- your presentation was that a Tikka has some glaring problem- which factually they do not; while simultaneously saying that you think a sub 1lb trigger is good, even after you had an ND with it. It’s a break in logical consistency, premise, and reality.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

It is important to clear a couple things up though:

1. I never had an ND with the ATZL. One of these guys dug up my review and decided that one shot in a ten round group that was a quarter of an inch outside of the cone of fire, constitutes a negligent discharge.

On the same logic, in your MCR review, getting used to the trigger tightened your groups up too. I certainly wouldn’t accuse you of having an “ND” because of that. Let’s not be silly here.

I’m sure you’re just repeating what was in the thread.

2. Tikkas are great. I prefer to not carry one with a round in the chamber while I’m stalking through timber with two other guys there.

This is, after all, the context in which I stated this. I’m happy to debate that logic.

3. Because of the level of control the de-cocking safety design affords, I’m personally comfortable with a light trigger on the Blaser. It has never once occurred, ever, that I’m rolling around hiking or stalking with a 250 gram trigger just ready to go off at any second. Or a safety accidentally getting bumped for that matter. The rifle is completely inert but for the split second that I’m raising it to my shoulder and then firing it.

Context matters.

One thing that I do think would move this thread toward solid information is that if you did clarify that Blasers are, in fact, designed to be carried with a round chambered and the hammer de-cocked. These guys only have traditional bolt guns as a reference.

 

[Kjc103]

Blaser review for reference:

 

[Chris in TN]

Thank you, I appreciate that.

It is important to clear a couple things up though:

1. I never had an ND with the ATZL. One of these guys dug up my review and decided that one shot in a ten round group that was a quarter of an inch outside of the cone of fire, constitutes a negligent discharge.

Let's review:



"Putting my finger on it set it off a little high".

Your own words refute your attempt to reimagine history.