Action Design For Hunting

[handwerk]

All my rifles custom or factory feature a 3 position safety, model 70s and kimbers…..I don’t see changing.

 

[grfox92]

Not true. I don’t believe in the chupacabra.

Valid point.

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[Kjc103]

I would be curious what event, experienced or heard of, brought you to this particular place.

With all the firearms you mentioned having, it would seem this particular issue for you now, wasn't one at the time you purchased the designs you are unhappy with now.

Two relatively easy fixes have already been identified. Either purchase your preferred design or hunt with an empty chamber.

But I am curious what has led you here now?

1. Idaho unit 14.

My guide this year said “look, we’re in Timber, you’re going to have only a few seconds to take your shot”. The recommendation was to carry the rifle in hand instead of slung and be ready to shoot. Loaded.

He was absolutely right. I didn’t see a bull but I did get a nice buck. I had seconds to process the entire situation and not having to rack a round or worry about the security of the safety all day carrying it settled it for me.

The guy with me whom I didn’t know, had an A-bolt, he seemed like he shot a whole lot less than me and I wasn’t loving the idea he didn’t have an inert rifle like I did (unless cocked).

2. I have shot only five animals total. I screwed up a 6th opportunity on a cow. I’m not claiming to be an expert, I’m pulling from the experience I have had. Half of those shots were all from the off-hand. Meaning, they were relatively quick or split second scenarios. Having a safe way to carry a loaded round is important in my mind.

 

[grfox92]

1. Idaho unit 14.

My guide this year said “look, we’re in Timber, you’re going to have only a few seconds to take your shot”. The recommendation was to carry the rifle in hand instead of slung and be ready to shoot. Loaded.

He was absolutely right. I didn’t see a bull but I did get a nice buck. I had seconds to process the entire situation and not having to rack a round or worry about the security of the safety all day carrying it settled it for me.

The guy with me whom I didn’t know, had an A-bolt, he seemed like he shot a whole lot less than me and I wasn’t loving the idea he didn’t have an inert rifle like I did (unless cocked).

2. I have shot only five animals total. I screwed up a 6th opportunity on a cow. I’m not claiming to be an expert, I’m pulling from the experience I have had. Half of those shots were all from the off-hand. Meaning, they were relatively quick or split second scenarios. Having a safe way to carry a loaded round is important in my mind.

So if you have the rifle in your hands it would be super easy to see if the safety had somehow in been flipped to fire. You could actually carry the rifle with your thumb on the safety. I think you are talking yourself out of using a particular action for a reason that isn't realistic.

When we decide to go hunting there is inherent risk at all times. There is a risk of falling, getting attacked by a predator, breaking or dislocating a bone. Tearing a ligament or tendon. Falling on to a sharp stick and impaling yourself.

Some might argue that your rifle is a variable that you can control. But the variable id like to control in terms of my rifle is reliability, availability of aftermarket support in order to maximize my performance behind the gun, and action that performs well in inclement weather, an action that feeds reliably, a smooth bolt and an affordable price.

Do you carry a pistol when your hunting? A pistol is way more likely to be accidentally pointing at your buddies or yourself when you are maneuvering around, crouching down, bending down to shoot. Most pistols guys carry now are striker fired pistols, chambered, often with no safety at all.

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[Steve300xcw]

These threads pop up every so often. And it always seems to be folks trying to invent problems where there arent any

 

[SloppyJ]

My preference is the 3 position on model 70s. I do enjoy the fact that I can unload a 700 with the safety on. Yes, it does feel odd switching the safety off on my Tikkas to unload it.

I dont find any of them more "safe" than the others. Youre in control of the rifle and operating it. Make sure your muzzle is clear before unloading the Tikka and its all good. In all reality its a more simplistic design with less parts to fail.

This feels like we are trying to make something a big deal here. If you don't like flipping the safety to unload a Tikka then maybe just stick with what you like?

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I hunt with 2 different actions on my rifles. My 25-06 (my go to deer/antelope gun) has the tang safety. Pretty hard to move it accidently. My elk/moose .300 Wby is a Number 1 Ruger single shot and I carry it with nothing in the chamber.
I guess I have no problems at all with safeties.

 

[Steve300xcw]

safety?

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

safety?


View attachment 971927

The safety is generally 1/2 cock on the older levers like the one in your picture.

 

[43.6N]

1. Idaho unit 14.

My guide this year said “look, we’re in Timber, you’re going to have only a few seconds to take your shot”. The recommendation was to carry the rifle in hand instead of slung and be ready to shoot. Loaded.

He was absolutely right. I didn’t see a bull but I did get a nice buck. I had seconds to process the entire situation and not having to rack a round or worry about the security of the safety all day carrying it settled it for me.

The guy with me whom I didn’t know, had an A-bolt, he seemed like he shot a whole lot less than me and I wasn’t loving the idea he didn’t have an inert rifle like I did (unless cocked).

2. I have shot only five animals total. I screwed up a 6th opportunity on a cow. I’m not claiming to be an expert, I’m pulling from the experience I have had. Half of those shots were all from the off-hand. Meaning, they were relatively quick or split second scenarios. Having a safe way to carry a loaded round is important in my mind.

Please please please do not start the habit carrying a loaded hunting rifle without being in direct control of the trigger and muzzle (similar to what your guide instructed you to do while still hunting).

A loaded gun in your hands that you are in 100% control of, with the expectation of a snap shot at any moment is perfectly fine. But it is in your hands, and you are ready to use it. You are actively controlling the muzzle direction and any brush that might contact the trigger guard.

A gun slung on your back, or on your pack is a completely different animal. Same for a gun in a case inside of a vehicle or atv. You have much less control over the trigger and muzzle direction. You are not expecting a snap shot, and very easily could have something work its way into the trigger guard (essentially the premise of your original post). To put it bluntly, the chamber needs to be empty unless the gun is in your hands and you expect a shot at any moment.

Empty your chamber as you de-escalate your level of shot preparation.

 

[Marbles]

The safety on the Tikka is one of my favorite things about it. It fuctions exactly like I want - locks the bolt and physically blocks the firing pin when engaged, unlocks everything when disengaged. I never had a problem with mine accidentally disengaging. The only thing I've ever had that problem with that I can recall is aftermarket Remington 700 style safeties that seem to have garbage detents and REALLY want to be in the off position. I have two rifles like that. Incredibly easy to push the safety off and require deliberate force to put them back on. I don't hunt with those, one day I'm going to rip them apart and fix that.

The Tikka safety doesn't physically block the firing pin. It does physically lock the seer into position, which is nearly as good, but not the same.

I have no problem trusting Tikka safeties.

Most pistols guys carry now are striker fired pistols, chambered, often with no safety at all.

Striker fired pistols have multiple safeties and usually a firing pin block. No thumb safety is not the same as no safety.

The guy with me whom I didn’t know, had an A-bolt, he seemed like he shot a whole lot less than me and I wasn’t loving the idea he didn’t have an inert rifle like I did (unless cocked).

No mechanical design that still allows a user to fire will control for not trusting the person with it.

Are you verifying uncocked status on other people's rifles?

Do what you want, but you certainly haven't made an argument that changes my mind.

 

[cottonant]

I love my Tikkas overall but prefer the ability to unload my browning xbolt without coming off safe via the bolt unlock button. And, my preference, I like the positioning of the Xbolt tang safety. I generally move around with the chamber unloaded anyway.

I've never owned a Tikka due having been told you must place the safety on fire to unload a round that's been chambered. Correct me if wrong.

+1 on loving the Browning X-Bolt safety position and the bolt unlock button.

 

[Steve300xcw]

The safety is generally 1/2 cock on the older levers like the one in your picture.

I am aware of that

 

[Steve300xcw]

I've never owned a Tikka due having been told you must place the safety on fire to unload a round that's been chambered. Correct me if wrong.

You really that worried about opening the bolt with the safety off?

 

[longrangelead]

1. Idaho unit 14.

My guide this year said “look, we’re in Timber, you’re going to have only a few seconds to take your shot”. The recommendation was to carry the rifle in hand instead of slung and be ready to shoot. Loaded.

He was absolutely right. I didn’t see a bull but I did get a nice buck. I had seconds to process the entire situation and not having to rack a round or worry about the security of the safety all day carrying it settled it for me.

The guy with me whom I didn’t know, had an A-bolt, he seemed like he shot a whole lot less than me and I wasn’t loving the idea he didn’t have an inert rifle like I did (unless cocked).

2. I have shot only five animals total. I screwed up a 6th opportunity on a cow. I’m not claiming to be an expert, I’m pulling from the experience I have had. Half of those shots were all from the off-hand. Meaning, they were relatively quick or split second scenarios. Having a safe way to carry a loaded round is important in my mind.

There are only two scenarios I can think of at the moment where I carry one in the chamber short term.

One is as you describe, still hunting timber with rifle ready, trigger finger straight, thumb on or near safety. I'm generally alone if still hunting also.

The other is walking up to an animal that is down or should be down but I don't have direct line of sight or know it's exact location yet.

Other than that, I carry condition 3. chamber empty, loaded mag.

 

[HawkCreek]

I've never had a safety get switched on me before. Not on Remingtons, Rugers, Winchesters, bolts, levers, pumps, never even on an AR. I go through thick brush all the time. Some of these posts makes me think some guys are dragging their rifle behind them on a string.

 

[grfox92]

I've never owned a Tikka due having been told you must place the safety on fire to unload a round that's been chambered. Correct me if wrong.

+1 on loving the Browning X-Bolt safety position and the bolt unlock button.

I have heard this said many times. I cant wrap my head around it. Why would it matter if you had to take the safety off before unloading a chambered round?

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[goalie]

People like to nitpick the other direction comparing Tikka rifles to others.

But when the fact that 3-position safeties are better than two-position safeties, look out!!!

Yes, a 3-position safety is a better design. But the safety on a Tikka is fine as well.

I prefer 3 position, but hunt with both, and lever guns, and single-shots without worries.

That said, with the fixation on only using scopes that handle being frequently dropped......

 

[hereinaz]

When a rifle is loaded, I have control over the safety and trigger guard at all times. It’s too critical. I am too paranoid. Going through brush, my hand is over the safety, and I am always checking it has not flicked forward.

I also don’t lean a loaded rifle against anything. It’s a recipe for disaster relinquishing control and some crazy scenario happens. Accidental shootings are always a lack of awareness or following the rules. A safety is a mechanical device that can fail.

I never sling or pack a loaded rifle either.

I can’t get myself worked up about the 2 stage vs 3 stage. I always point it in a safe direction and drop the mag to empty it. With it in a safe direction, it may surprise me if it discharged, but no one will get hurt.

 

[43.6N]

don’t lean a loaded rifle against anything. It’s a recipe for disaster relinquishing control and some crazy scenario happens. Accidental shootings are always a lack of awareness or following the rules. A safety is a mechanical device that can fail.

This is exactly how my uncle lost his foot, and nearly his life.

Someone was being careless and left a loaded 300wm leaning up against a wall behind the line of fire. Allegedly the safety was on. When the gun slid it happened to fall towards the shooting line. The fall tripped the sear and it discharged. Obliterating my uncles foot/ankle. A fast TQ saved his life.

Any chamber that is not being actively managed need to be empty.