Accessing Public Land via dirt road that crosses gap b/w road and public

[hawkman71]

*If there is a "I Know This is a Dumb Question" section on this forum, please point me to it.

I'm poring over maps, regs, etc. Reading threads everywhere. Just when I think I've made a decision, something comes up that makes me whoa up.

An example is this. I thought I had a piece of public land, adjoining a public road. However, when zooming in, I saw a gap of 168 feet between the road and the public tract. A road/path leads from the state road up into the public land (total length of mapped path in Goolge is ~0.5 miles although you can see the single-track go on for miles branching in an out of the specific public tract.)

Would this mean I'd have to have permission from the landowner to drive or walk into this public tract? I'm guessing YES given everything I've read.

*I should add: Immediately below this tract is another public tract (BLM). This portion of road is angled a few degrees east of due north and the public tract is either due north or slightly west... They don't align. (see 2nd photo) Does that mean,in that case, that you could stop on the road where it's contained by the public boundary and access that tract from that spot? Is there a chance that the actual boundary goes up to the road only?

 

[Oregonmuley]

If that 168 feet is private then yes I believe you would need to talk to the landowner to cross their land. I hunt in a WY antelope unit with a really similar situation. One of the local ranchers owns about 200 yards of land between the main road and the public just off the road. There is a good two-track coming off the hwy and he has that road gated and now also locks that gate. You can walk in from a different spot where the blm touches the hwy but you can't drive in on that road.

 

[BRTreedogs]

It will depend on the state as well, and easements. But for the most part you can never assume to be able to cross even one foot of private.
Basically it ether touches the rite of way of the public rd or not.
The rite of way generally is wider then the hard pan of the road, but may only extend to the far side of the bar ditch. Or I may go to the fence, every area is its own thing.
Also you are showing 2 different types of public? Blm and what?
Beware State land is managed very differently state to state. Some places you can hunt it, some its just leased, some you can camp, some can't.

 

[DawnPatrol]

I wouldn’t drive that road in your first picture without (1) express consent from the land owner or (2) confirmation from the county or the federal agency that there’s a public travel easement on that road.

OnX doesn’t consistently show travel easements, so it may be worthwhile to ask.

 

[LWright]

I’d say you need permission. We’ve hunted Wyoming the last 6 years . If that’s in Wyoming , go to the county accessor page and they have public road maps. I’ve been doing this each time we’re in a new area. It definitely helps to figure out exactly what roads cut through public tracts. Good luck!

 

[WCB]

Top picture...confirm if that stub road is public if it is you can drive it across the private. If it is not a county road or other form of public road...you need permission.

Bottom picture...If that road going through BLM is a public road you can stop any where in the boundaries of the BLM and be good to go.

 

[Dkhunter12]

FWIW - A few years ago in WY we drove down a road across private land to access public land and came to an electronic gate at the border of the public/private. We turned around and headed back out the same way. When we got back out a truck parked at the intersection was waiting for us. He told us that permission was needed to drive into where the gate was. Luckily we had no issues. If you are not sure I would assume it is private and respect the landowner.

 

[Netherman]

I agree with the "ask the local govt" advice given above. Or you could be like a dude I ran into in WY a few years ago that just printed his map and bolded around the public and conveniently covered the small section of private. "all looks public on my map"...

 

[LONE HUNTER]

A huge chunk of those kinds of roads on onX are not public easements. I would make certain before going on it especially somehwere like wyoming

 

[wyoguy]

I'd check if i were you, also the mapping boundary could also be offset like the top picture the road is the actual property boundary but the lot lines are not synced with the satellite. This is what currently happens in the county I live in.

 

[Rich M]

Top one - unless you are told it is good, then it is out of reach and why the road was built like that. There are a lot of "public pieces" like that.

Bottom one, pull over and go hunt.

I used the WY GIS map and talked to the local GW before I went. GW was nice, told me about a couple access routes where they wanted folks to enter some parcels - a few were private roads/drives. He also told me I was overthinking it. Told him I'm not driving 30+ hours to do anything illegal.

 

[browning2480]

Talk to the biologist. That is what we did our first year. He had a big map and showed us the roads we could use and the ones we couldn’t.

 

[jimh406]

I agree that just because there is a road doesn't mean there is public access. It could easily be a restricted easement. For instance, on my property there is an easement that the power company can use, but it isn't available for the public unless they ask my permission. Fwiw, even the power company tells me when they need access.

Before I moved here someone cut the wire on the fence gate, so they obviously had a "wrong" opinion that they didn't need permission. Oh, in case you are wondering, the power companies don't cut fences to gain access via gates that are locked. They cut the chain and put their lock in the gap.

 

[hawkman71]

I appreciate the advice. I'll be careful (if I draw a tag!)

I used to metal detect as a hobby a fair bit. I was very honest about making sure I had permission then as well. It is my nature.

I could see where someone (even me?) would be tempted, if having put so much effort and money into a trip, and finding oneself in the middle of a vast expanse of Wyoming, with no one around...

 

[Rich M]

I appreciate the advice. I'll be careful (if I draw a tag!)

I used to metal detect as a hobby a fair bit. I was very honest about making sure I had permission then as well. It is my nature.

I could see where someone (even me?) would be tempted, if having put so much effort and money into a trip, and finding oneself in the middle of a vast expanse of Wyoming, with no one around...

The landowners pay very close attention to their property during hunting season. We were glassing public land from a numbered county road - at the access gate and the adjoining rancher stopped, told us we were trespassing by standing in the road. The locals in that area were not friendly towards outsiders.

There was another parcel where the road and gate was moved from being on public aver about 100 feet so it was no longer public access. (we knew based off aerial photographs and the driveway). We parked there and hopped the fence to check it out - was a watering hole and gazillion antelope on public.

Know what you are getting into before you go. They seem to make it intentionally difficult.

 

[idelkslayer]

Whenever I see a road like that I always wonder how it came to be. It starts from a clearly public road (county road or state highway). It crosses private and then enters public land and continues on public, sometimes for miles. If it is a private road, then who built it onto public? If it is truly a private road, then I guess we have to assume that the private landowner illegally extended his road onto public land. And if that is the case, then why aren't these private land owners being prosecuted for illegally building roads on public land?

Realistically I know that many of these "roads" were never "Built". People repeatedly drove on them long enough to establish a road and no one ever interfered or asked permission. That is changing as landowners crack down. However, I have also seen landowners post no trespassing on a public road, and then continue to use themselves it to access public land.

One specific case, is an old BLM road that was closed to motorized traffic to protect wintering grounds for Mule Deer. The road is closed year-round as are most other roads that used to access the area. The road crosses 0.5 miles of private before entering BLM. After the BLM closed the road, the private landowner posted the road as private. I have documented the landowner, continuing to access the BLM property using ATVs despite denying the public the ability to even drive the road up to the closed area. I submitted all the info to BLM and nothing ever came of it.

 

[Rich M]

Sucks but that’s how the laws are written. Even 1 ft of private changes everything, especially for the NR hunter who has a lot to lose.

Best bet is to understand the risk. I don’t care if someone gets nailed for trespassing. That’s their problem. My concern is not getting a ticket or losing a hunting license or whatever.

 

[idelkslayer]

There are many such roads crossing private land that are USFS or BLM roads.

The problem is knowing which of these are public and which are just old warn in two-tracks from days gone by. It seems that these days an honest mistake is far more costly than it used to be.

 

[DawnPatrol]

I submitted all the info to BLM and nothing ever came of

Story of my life

 

[Gooseboy]

I actually appreciate these threads even tho seem to be numerous this time of year