A bill to set aside 2550 tags for wealthy nonresident landowners is being proposed in Montana

[Rifleman86]

Agreed, I don't think those fights go away but like I mentioned earlier. We've gotten a commitment from the most powerful lobby in PERC, to no longer pursue Transferrable LO tags in Montana.

Thanks for clarifying Schaff. I’m obviously not happy about this but can see where you guys are coming from in the fact that it’s probably the least bad option at the moment. I am worried about the slippery slope and I’m sure you aren’t ignorant of it either.

Do you know how many NR landowners are even eligible for this allotment?

 

[Gutshot007]

I think 600-1000 was quoted above 3.5-6% of the 17000 nr tags

 

[Trackerbacker]

I think what @Schaaf and PERC ahould do, is recommend a bill to not allow any non resident hunting or fishing.

To clarify. Zero allowable non resident hunting or fishing. As in, illegal for a non resident to hunt, fish, hike, camp......

Then residents can decided how far their measly $10m contribution will go with the lack up the other $30m from non residents.

I do sincerely mean what I'm about to say. I hope western hunting gets so brow beaten with laws, prices, costs, limits, wolfs, anything really, so residents of said western states can only blame themselves, residents...

I'll have to be reminded on that note..was it residents or NR that voted for wolf reintro out west? Can't recall if I got a ballot measure for it as a NR.

But seriously, I do hope it gets worse, and the begging for "please voice your concerns NR to legislators to keep hunting/xyz open" continues, because it will continually fall on more and more deaf ears while you tout how 7th generation cowboy you are, rough and tumble not like them city folk...

Enjoy!

 

[bsnedeker]

I think what @Schaaf and PERC ahould do, is recommend a bill to not allow any non resident hunting or fishing.

To clarify. Zero allowable non resident hunting or fishing. As in, illegal for a non resident to hunt, fish, hike, camp......

Then residents can decided how far their measly $10m contribution will go with the lack up the other $30m from non residents.

I do sincerely mean what I'm about to say. I hope western hunting gets so brow beaten with laws, prices, costs, limits, wolfs, anything really, so residents of said western states can only blame themselves, residents...

I'll have to be reminded on that note..was it residents or NR that voted for wolf reintro out west? Can't recall if I got a ballot measure for it as a NR.

But seriously, I do hope it gets worse, and the begging for "please voice your concerns NR to legislators to keep hunting/xyz open" continues, because it will continually fall on more and more deaf ears while you tout how 7th generation cowboy you are, rough and tumble not like them city folk...

Enjoy!

Wow, you are a bitter person aren't you? Are you this triggered by everything you feel entitled to not being handed to you on a silver platter? That's a tough way to go through life my man...sorry to hear about it!

 

[S.Clancy]

I think what @Schaaf and PERC ahould do, is recommend a bill to not allow any non resident hunting or fishing.

To clarify. Zero allowable non resident hunting or fishing. As in, illegal for a non resident to hunt, fish, hike, camp......

Then residents can decided how far their measly $10m contribution will go with the lack up the other $30m from non residents.

I do sincerely mean what I'm about to say. I hope western hunting gets so brow beaten with laws, prices, costs, limits, wolfs, anything really, so residents of said western states can only blame themselves, residents...

I'll have to be reminded on that note..was it residents or NR that voted for wolf reintro out west? Can't recall if I got a ballot measure for it as a NR.

But seriously, I do hope it gets worse, and the begging for "please voice your concerns NR to legislators to keep hunting/xyz open" continues, because it will continually fall on more and more deaf ears while you tout how 7th generation cowboy you are, rough and tumble not like them city folk...

Enjoy!

 

[Trackerbacker]

Wow, you are a bitter person aren't you? Are you this triggered by everything you feel entitled to not being handed to you on a silver platter? That's a tough way to go through life my man...sorry to hear about it!

Not in the least.

What I am, is a realist. And one of very few members here who call out how WY/MT residents act. Like a petulant child.

Yall made your bed, yall tough 7th gennies can sleep in it.

I legitimately think they (shaaf/perc) should recommend that. That seems to be the consensus from residents in said states, NRs killing Rs hunting.

Fine, get rid of NR hunting. Do it, put your money where your mouth is.

Or don't, and shut up.

But wy/Mt residents continual "please please help us non residents, send xyz to abc" followed up with "non residents are hurting our hunting, it's ouR resources, not yours " Is the most bratty, elitist, backwoods inbred thought process ever.

But at 5th generation population levels, what else can you expect? Eventually the life guard takes a break at the gene pool.

Who in this thread said "you can use any of our federal resources you want, but you can ask us our permission for our resources ". That was good advice in context, and relative to what I've said.

Tell you what, I'll make you an offer, I'll search your posts for whining and silver platters, you search mine for the same.

You won't find much but once stating anything relative to a silver platter/tag in a western state as a NR. And I can even help you out on the search too, it was a Comment towards mtwarden.

 

[bsnedeker]

Not in the least.

What I am, is a realist. And one of very few members here who call out how WY/MT residents act. Like a petulant child.

Yall made your bed, yall tough 7th gennies can sleep in it.

I legitimately think they (shaaf/perc) should recommend that. That seems to be the consensus from residents in said states, NRs killing Rs hunting.

Fine, get rid of NR hunting. Do it, put your money where your mouth is.

Or don't, and shut up.

But wy/Mt residents continual "please please help us non residents, send xyz to abc" followed up with "non residents are hurting our hunting, it's ouR resources, not yours " Is the most bratty, elitist, backwoods inbred thought process ever.

But at 5th generation population levels, what else can you expect? Eventually the life guard takes a break at the gene pool.

Who in this thread said "you can use any of our federal resources you want, but you can ask us our permission for our resources ". That was good advice in context, and relative to what I've said.

Tell you what, I'll make you an offer, I'll search your posts for whining and silver platters, you search mine for the same.

You won't find much but once stating anything relative to a silver platter/tag in a western state as a NR. And I can even help you out on the search too, it was a Comment towards mtwarden.

Lol....why would we get rid of NR hunting? You guys give us TONS of money! No matter how much we raise prices ya'll just keep sending your SWEET NR cash into this state!

I think you are REALLY mad it are your fellow NR's who continue to flood our state with cash no matter what we do.

Free market economics can be a bit of a bitch sometimes. Welcome to reality Mr. Realist!

 

[S.Clancy]

 

[S.Clancy]

 

[mt100gr.]

Not in the least.

What I am, is a realist. And one of very few members here who call out how WY/MT residents act. Like a petulant child.

Yall made your bed, yall tough 7th gennies can sleep in it.

I legitimately think they (shaaf/perc) should recommend that. That seems to be the consensus from residents in said states, NRs killing Rs hunting.

Fine, get rid of NR hunting. Do it, put your money where your mouth is.

Or don't, and shut up.

But wy/Mt residents continual "please please help us non residents, send xyz to abc" followed up with "non residents are hurting our hunting, it's ouR resources, not yours " Is the most bratty, elitist, backwoods inbred thought process ever.

But at 5th generation population levels, what else can you expect? Eventually the life guard takes a break at the gene pool.

Who in this thread said "you can use any of our federal resources you want, but you can ask us our permission for our resources ". That was good advice in context, and relative to what I've said.

Tell you what, I'll make you an offer, I'll search your posts for whining and silver platters, you search mine for the same.

You won't find much but once stating anything relative to a silver platter/tag in a western state as a NR. And I can even help you out on the search too, it was a Comment towards mtwarden.

From which state is all of this entitlement coming? I have a few guesses....

 

[goathunter]

Not in the least.

What I am, is a realist. And one of very few members here who call out how WY/MT residents act. Like a petulant child.

Yall made your bed, yall tough 7th gennies can sleep in it.

I legitimately think they (shaaf/perc) should recommend that. That seems to be the consensus from residents in said states, NRs killing Rs hunting.

Fine, get rid of NR hunting. Do it, put your money where your mouth is.

Or don't, and shut up.

But wy/Mt residents continual "please please help us non residents, send xyz to abc" followed up with "non residents are hurting our hunting, it's ouR resources, not yours " Is the most bratty, elitist, backwoods inbred thought process ever.

But at 5th generation population levels, what else can you expect? Eventually the life guard takes a break at the gene pool.

Who in this thread said "you can use any of our federal resources you want, but you can ask us our permission for our resources ". That was good advice in context, and relative to what I've said.

Tell you what, I'll make you an offer, I'll search your posts for whining and silver platters, you search mine for the same.

You won't find much but once stating anything relative to a silver platter/tag in a western state as a NR. And I can even help you out on the search too, it was a Comment towards mtwarden.

Would you like a Snickers?

 

[Rifleman86]

Not in the least.

What I am, is a realist. And one of very few members here who call out how WY/MT residents act. Like a petulant child.

Yall made your bed, yall tough 7th gennies can sleep in it.

I legitimately think they (shaaf/perc) should recommend that. That seems to be the consensus from residents in said states, NRs killing Rs hunting.

Fine, get rid of NR hunting. Do it, put your money where your mouth is.

Or don't, and shut up.

But wy/Mt residents continual "please please help us non residents, send xyz to abc" followed up with "non residents are hurting our hunting, it's ouR resources, not yours " Is the most bratty, elitist, backwoods inbred thought process ever.

But at 5th generation population levels, what else can you expect? Eventually the life guard takes a break at the gene pool.

Who in this thread said "you can use any of our federal resources you want, but you can ask us our permission for our resources ". That was good advice in context, and relative to what I've said.

Tell you what, I'll make you an offer, I'll search your posts for whining and silver platters, you search mine for the same.

You won't find much but once stating anything relative to a silver platter/tag in a western state as a NR. And I can even help you out on the search too, it was a Comment towards mtwarden.

Reductio ad absurdum.

Bravo.

 

[goathunter]

Reductio ad absurdum.

Bravo.

Right, his intellectual argument has convinced me how wrong we are... Just ignore that whole inbred "7th gennies" part.

 

[Rifleman86]

At this point I’m with you Trackerbacker…

Let’s just do it across the board to be fair.

Guys in the 49 other states want to go to AK for moose? Too bad.

Ohio for whitetails? SOL.

Arkansas for waterfowl? Get bent.

Florida for off shore? Fish for saltwater species in your own state.

Oh and get ready to pay $500-1000 for a resident tag while you’re at it.

I’d imagine there would be a lot of sudden epiphanies about the big picture with regards to wildlife and outdoor opportunities.

 

[Rifleman86]

Right, his intellectual argument has convinced me how wrong we are... Just ignore that whole inbred "7th gennies" part.

You take any argument to its extreme, it’s absurdity becomes apparent.

It’s no different than a NR arguing that he’s entitled to $20 OTC general elk tags because he owns the federal land.

These arguments are so cyclical and predictable… Yes residents opportunity should be greater and more accessible than NR. Yes NR play an important role in funding, broader conservation support, etc. We’re all NR in 49 other states and not having the ability to experience what this country has to offer outside your home state with regards to fish and wildlife would suck. For anyone.

 

[goathunter]

You take any argument to its extreme, it’s absurdity becomes apparent.

It’s no different than a NR arguing that he’s entitled to $20 OTC general elk tags because he owns the federal land.

These arguments are so cyclical and predictable… Yes residents opportunity should be greater and more accessible than NR. Yes NR play an important role in finding, broader conservation support, etc. We’re all NR in 49 other states and not having the ability to experience what this country has to offer outside your home state with regards to fish and wildlife would suck. For anyone.

Yes I know what it means thanks.

But did you actually read his post? Do you think he's winning anyone over talking to them like this?

Like a petulant child.

Yall made your bed, yall tough 7th gennies can sleep in it.

I legitimately think they (shaaf/perc) should recommend that. That seems to be the consensus from residents in said states, NRs killing Rs hunting.

Fine, get rid of NR hunting. Do it, put your money where your mouth is.

Or don't, and shut up.

But wy/Mt residents continual "please please help us non residents, send xyz to abc" followed up with "non residents are hurting our hunting, it's ouR resources, not yours " Is the most bratty, elitist, backwoods inbred thought process ever.

But at 5th generation population levels, what else can you expect? Eventually the life guard takes a break at the gene pool.

 

[Trackerbacker]

Reductio ad absurdum.

Bravo.

Hey, I like that!

At this point I’m with you Trackerbacker…

Let’s just do it across the board to be fair.

Guys in the 49 other states want to go to AK for moose? Too bad.

Ohio for whitetails? SOL.

Arkansas for waterfowl? Get bent.

Florida for off shore? Fish for saltwater species in your own state.

Oh and get ready to pay $500-1000 for a resident tag while you’re at it.

I’d imagine there would be a lot of sudden epiphanies about the big picture with regards to wildlife and outdoor opportunities.

Yup, you get it..

The rest of it falls on deaf ears.

From which state is all of this entitlement coming? I have a few guesses....

I'd like to hear! (No peaking). Again, where did I say I was entitled to x? Point it out.

Yes I know what it means thanks.

But did you actually read his post? Do you think he's winning anyone over talking to them like this?

Not my intent, I'm just pointing out what's been said x1000 here. 'Please help us......thanks but now that you want help, get bent"

Lol....why would we get rid of NR hunting? You guys give us TONS of money! No matter how much we raise prices ya'll just keep sending your SWEET NR cash into this state!

I think you are REALLY mad it are your fellow NR's who continue to flood our state with cash no matter what we do.

Not at all, not an iota. Matter of fact, I'll gladly post the gps to any "honeyhole", because I care that little about "my spot"

Free market economics can be a bit of a bitch sometimes. Welcome to reality Mr. Realist!

Not free market, nice try. Any .gov ran program is the farthest from free market. Free market would dictact 2 clients, and do you think the free market would prefer to sell $20 tags to those eligible with $15 overhead (loss) or $50 tags to those with demand, not eligible for the $20 tag client?

Think a hospital likes medicaid/Medicare/.gov insurance?no. They like that primo Cadillac.

But hey, you were close.


Fired some of yall up

edit to add RE:"my entitlements"

I 100% support my state changing how it treats NR, as my understanding from talking with them is somewhere around 3-5 years before ever thinking about heading back. thats asinine.

 

[Rifleman86]

Yes I know what it means thanks.

But did you actually read his post? Do you think he's winning anyone over talking to them like this?

No he’s not. It’s admittedly crass. But he did effectively point out the absurd position that many residents take toward NR’s who flip most of the bill.

Many residents have a nuanced and reasonable opinion toward NR hunters. They understand the balance that needs to occur, and frustrations from the other side.

But there are many who view NR as a scapegoats for a changing larger population landscape, and would gladly see us never visit or fund their state again, completely ignorant of what the reality of that world look like.

 

[LuvsFixedBlades]

Just so you know what you are up against in Montana: We had over 60 thousand NR deer and elk hunters up here last year...most of them buying B tags.

You aren't going to find a lot of residents up in arms about this since those tags are coming out of the 17K "Limit" we are supposed to have. I'm hopeful we will close the B tag loophole and get our NR hunter numbers under control...until that happens you probably won't see a lot of support from residents.

You want to talk about getting non-resident numbers under control, LOL?

In Colorado last year, we had 102,444 non-resident big game hunters. That's about 40,000 more than Montana.

Colorado has a population of 5.9 million people, and Montana has 1.1 million. That means you only have 18.6% of the population we do. Guess how much harder it is for us to draw tags as residents.

Also, Montana is 147,000 square miles vs. Colorado at 104,000. You are basically half again bigger than us in terms of area.

Add all of that up, and Montana is still a pretty damn sweet state to be a resident hunter in.

Just so you know, it's not going to get better for any of us in the West any time soon.