700yd practice, calling wind sucks!

[Steve300xcw]

Honestly it is going to depend on your backstop, and how much elevation you have in your scope. Seeing your hits isnt anywhere near as easy as with a centerfire

Been a while since I shot like that with a rimfire. But you oughta be able to do 300yrds without too much issue, and crowd the 400yrd line if the wind is being nice.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I have a lot of 22LR from plain jane rugers to bolt actions set up for Longer stuff, but I haven't considered them for this type of shooting especially when there is a big difference just in the ammo for 22LR. Maybe I'll look into it. What would you think a scaled long range would be? 200yds?

Just practice fundamentals with your .22, in my opinion. Firing 200 .22 LR from field positions at 50 yards is going to be better for your overall shooting ability than shooting from a bench at 200 yards. Use your .223 and “big gun” for the longer range stuff (without neglecting your field positions with those rifles).


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[Steve300xcw]

Just practice fundamentals with your .22, in my opinion. Firing 200 .22 LR from field positions at 50 yards is going to be better for your overall shooting ability than shooting from a bench at 200 yards.

You aren't wrong. That doesn't help much with learning the wind though. Running through a brick of shells at 200-300 just might help with that

 

[West2East]

For reference I haven't sat at a bench in probably 3 years so all of my shooting is done basically with what I would take hunting. I have shot so much 22lr in my life that I'm guessing it would take 150 - 250yds to really get a good transferable skill in reading and holding wind. Like I stated, its probably doable, I would just need some really good ammo to get moa accuracy to actually remove the ammo from the equation. IRRC CCI ammo gives me about a 2-3" group at 100 yds out of my 10/22 and I haven't messed around too much with the bolt gun to see how it does with the CCI ammo

 

[Steve300xcw]

I never went too far down the long range 22lr worm hole. But seems I remember folks preferring the standard velocity stuff, could be wrong though.

Still. 22lr ammo is cheap. Pickup a handful of different stuff. Feed the stuff your bolt gun doesn't like to the 10/22, go buy a few bricks and let the party begin.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

You aren't wrong. That doesn't help much with learning the wind though. Running through a brick of shells at 200-300 just might help with that

If I’m not shooting from a bench [edit - or prone], I won’t have enough base accuracy from a .22 LR to know if I am making the right wind calls [edit - at 300 yards!]. Especially with cheap .22 ammo. The long range rimfire guys at my local range are spending 30-40 cents a round for .22 LR. I would just spend that money on .223 for my long range practice.


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[Steve300xcw]

If I’m not shooting from a bench, I won’t have enough base accuracy from a .22 LR to know if I am making the right wind calls.

Sounds like you need more trigger time

Especially with cheap .22 ammo. The long range rimfire guys at my local range are spending 30-40 cents a round for .22 LR. I would just spend that money on .223 for my long range practice.

I cant make myself spend that much on 22lr either. And running a handful of blazers out at that range is comical. I do feel that there is a middle ground between blaster packs and the .40/round stuff. One would have to experiment and see what that is though.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Sounds like you need more trigger time



I cant make myself spend that much on 22lr either. And running a handful of blazers out at that range is comical. I do feel that there is a middle ground between blaster packs and the .40/round stuff. One would have to experiment and see what that is though.

I should have said, “At 300 yards…” If you can hit consistently at 300 yards with a .22 LR from field positions (offhand, sitting , or kneeling) you are a better rifleman than me.


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[West2East]

Sitting with a pack and tripod is very steady, so that wouldn't be unthinkable.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Sitting with a pack and tripod is very steady, so that wouldn't be unthinkable.

I consider a tripod to be about as good as a prone, if not quite as good as a bench. But I don’t shoot with a tripod.


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[West2East]

Well I guess I should qualify, one tripod leg is used as a rear support while the fore-end rests on your backpack. It's a quick way to get stable. I always have my tripod out glassing so it's available in that situation. Like I said, I try to only shoot with what I take hunting just so I know what my abilities are.
If I clamped my gun in a vise no doubt it would shoot better than 1.5moa, but I don't take my vice hunting, same with a bench.

 

[Lawnboi]

For reference I haven't sat at a bench in probably 3 years so all of my shooting is done basically with what I would take hunting. I have shot so much 22lr in my life that I'm guessing it would take 150 - 250yds to really get a good transferable skill in reading and holding wind. Like I stated, its probably doable, I would just need some really good ammo to get moa accuracy to actually remove the ammo from the equation. IRRC CCI ammo gives me about a 2-3" group at 100 yds out of my 10/22 and I haven't messed around too much with the bolt gun to see how it does with the CCI ammo

I don’t feel any rimfire really translates to centerfire. I have tried to use it as a trainer but it just dosnt do it for me, I get about as much from a dry fire, which really only is position building.

I do feel a 223 is a viable training option though.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Well I guess I should qualify, one tripod leg is used as a rear support while the fore-end rests on your backpack. It's a quick way to get stable. I always have my tripod out glassing so it's available in that situation. Like I said, I try to only shoot with what I take hunting just so I know what my abilities are.
If I clamped my gun in a vise no doubt it would shoot better than 1.5moa, but I don't take my vice hunting, same with a bench.

The point I am trying to make is that if you want to get good at making wind calls, I think you have to eliminate the other sources of error as much as possible. If you call it a full value wind, but hit somewhere unexpectedly, you want to have a good idea of whether you got the wind call wrong. I don’t think I could do that at 300 yards with a rimfire unless I was shooting from a bench. If you can do that with cheap rimfire ammo from a hunting rifle, then more power to you. The people I know who do 300 yard rimfire use expensive ammo and specialized, very heavy, rifles shooting from the bench.

I do my wind practice prone with a bipod, at 300-500 yards, on 8” steel with a big piece of cardboard behind it. My targets are all over my farm, which is rolling hills in a narrow valley, so I am not always dealing with the same wind speeds or directions. And no range flags or Kestrel. It is a good bit harder than shooting at the 500-yard line at Camp Pendleton, where I learned that due to the thermals rising off the airfield, the third relay generally had a steady full value wind and I could just hold on the target to the right of mine and hit every shot (or maybe I really sucked and got pit love?). I have been using my Mauser .22-250 and CZ 6.5 Grendel for it this summer, but now that I have a Tikka 223 practice rifle, I will use that.


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[hickswr]

S&B FMJ ammo blows at 700 yards. You’ll be pleasantly surprised when some better ammo.

 

[Jordan Smith]

One thing I noticed right off within about 5 shots is that my wind call was waaayyyy off. I actually needed about less than 2moa hold to the right and when there was no wind a little less than 1moa to the left. I don't know how to reconcile this other than recognize maybe my inputs were incorrect.

When shooting over varied terrain, the wind all the way between you and the target is not just consistently doing what you measure with your Kestrel at your shooting position. Think of the way water flows around different land features in a creek (also different at the bottom of the creek versus higher up at the surface), and imagine that happening over the terrain features between you and the target.

In a complex scenario with various terrain features and elevations, it's very easy to mis-call the net wind effect on your bullet, even if you're sitting at your shooting position with a Kestrel. Wind flows faster higher off the ground (again, similar to water in a creek or river), so shooting across a canyon adds that additional variable.

Shots from the video are numbered on the card(if you care to watch) and show a little progression of figuring out what to do with the wind. The strong winds (10mph) I actually only needed 2MOA to be "Close" and "Zero" wind I needed to hold off the left edge of the plate (1MOA) to make impacts(I haven't determined if this is spin drift or just user error/form). Also, by tracking these shots I saw that the original dope sheet was off and I needed about 19.25 to be center elevation, could also go to 19.5. Notice none of the shots were high which tells me I'm not centered on elevation.

It looks to me like your cone of fire, even after you added the 0.25-0.5 MOA after the first 10 shots, could stand to come up another 0.4 MOA, or so, to center your cone.

Any input or help/ commentary would be awesome. Also, if anyone else has tracked like this and is willing to show a whole cut up video I think it's helpful at least for me to diagnose my own sessions.

I agree about getting your spent primer count up with trainer rifles like a .223 and .22 LR. When it comes to .22 LR, shooting at about 300 yards is similar in effect to shooting at 1000 yards with a high-BC CF bullet. I would suggest practicing between 100-250 yards to replicate the wind drifts you're seeing now, with a given wind profile.

In terms of .22 LR ammo, consider some of the match-grade stuff: Eley TenX, Lapua CenterX and Midas, SK Long range and Match, etc. Most of it should still be a fair bit cheaper than high-BC .223 ammo. Find what your rifle likes and get to practicing.

 

[Steve300xcw]

I don’t feel any rimfire really translates to centerfire. I have tried to use it as a trainer but it just dosnt do it for me, I get about as much from a dry fire, which really only is position building.

I do feel a 223 is a viable training option though.

It is and it isnt. 5mph wind is still a 5mph wind. Do it right and you can learn a lot on the cheap. Also there are a pile of places where I would have no problems spending a few hours with a 22lr, where a centerfire...not so much.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

In a complex scenario with various terrain features and elevations, it's very easy to mis-call the net wind effect on your bullet, even if you're sitting at your shooting position with a Kestrel. Wind flows faster higher off the ground (again, similar to water in a creek or river), so shooting across a canyon add that's additional variable.

This is excellent information that I wish more folks would consider.

When we used to teach long range classes we would have a guy down range with a radio set off smoke canisters at the targets.

This would show the shooters not only what the wind was doing at the target compared to the shooting position, but just how much more it moves once it gets further away from the ground.

When shooting a bullet at 700 yards, in steep terrain, consider what the high point of your bullet could be, not only the trajectory arc of needing to dial 10 feet above the target, but what the terrain looks like during flight. Understanding the bullets high point for the shot can make or break a wind call.

The ONLY way to learn this is to go shoot. Take notes. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Steve300xcw]

That was why I mentioned going up on a foggy day. Watch that stuff hauling ass across a canyon and then shoot straight up when it hits the rimrock. Pretty eye opening

also always liked this vid

 

[West2East]

I have done quite a bit of my shooting in the mountains and have noticed the variable wind speed and direction, it's one of the things I'm working on when shooting which is why I try to be at longer range to see the impacts of what I think a wind is vs what it really is.
@THLR videos have helped me in that area. Still more work needed though.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[West2East]

S&B FMJ ammo blows at 700 yards. You’ll be pleasantly surprised when some better ammo.

I've wondered about this and I think you're right. I can even tell when the gun goes off that it doesn't seem like the loads are very consistent. It's just so cheap! but maybe capping it to like 400 and trying to find a ELDM loading that I can use for longer range. I hate to start loading my own since that just takes time but maybe that's the answer to get it cheaper to shoot longer.
I use 147 factory ammo for my hunting round, maybe the key is to start loading what I need instead of trying to find a "deal" on them and buying enough for hunting season. It just sucks paying $32/box vs $15.50/box for the S&B