700yd practice, calling wind sucks!

West2East

FNG
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Aug 14, 2023
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West Oregon
I went shooting Saturday and tried to get some long range shots in to try to work on form and wind calling. I almost didn't go because I knew the wind was going to be tricky but I figured that's the only way to get better. I filmed most/all of my shots(I think I didn't get 1 or 2 on video). I had one target set up at 350yds and one right at 698yds. I've been getting out at least once a week if not twice for practice and am practically on demand from most shooting positions to about 400 kneeling with backpack, seated with front backpack and rear tripod leg . But 450 and out, it's a different story.
First off, a little about my setup. Tikka T3X 6.5cm, Maven RS1 scope (MOA), backpack front rest, bino harness rear rest, Kestrel just to verify and help with wind call, 140 S&B FMJBT practice ammo. I have multiple 10 rd groups at 100 to get my zero and through tracking them, it's holding very steady so I'm very pleased with that. I recognize that the ammo is not the most accurate and that may cause some issues at distance but at 100yds I consistently have 1.5moa 10 rd groups.

I show up at my spot on Saturday and winds are showing 7 to 12 mph from about 2 O'Clock. Strelock said 4MOA on the windage hold for the 12 mph wind and 18.75 up for elevation. The picture of the range card is all of the info I distilled and estimated from my videos. and the video is a compilation of all of the shots. the range card shows 32 shots on a 12in plate(each square is approx. 2 in for the nerds). The vertical and horizontal lines show an estimated 16" square.

One thing I noticed right off within about 5 shots is that my wind call was waaayyyy off. I actually needed about less than 2moa hold to the right and when there was no wind a little less than 1moa to the left. I don't know how to reconcile this other than recognize maybe my inputs were incorrect. Shots from the video are numbered on the card(if you care to watch) and show a little progression of figuring out what to do with the wind. The strong winds (10mph) I actually only needed 2MOA to be "Close" and "Zero" wind I needed to hold off the left edge of the plate (1MOA) to make impacts(I haven't determined if this is spin drift or just user error/form). Also, by tracking these shots I saw that the original dope sheet was off and I needed about 19.25 to be center elevation, could also go to 19.5. Notice none of the shots were high which tells me I'm not centered on elevation.

OBVIOUS takeaway, not shooting at 700 at animals, and learning to call wind accurately to make a first round impact especially when wind isn't exactly full value or consistent, is tough. I already knew that but at some point you think I'd be getting better 😅 I also think that my variation group to group is good meaning my form is getting better and repeatable.

Also, I have so many guys in my "hunting community" that talk about 500 -800 yd shots as doable and they would take them. Every time I go out and practice come away shaking my head that my distance is much shorter than a lot of my friends and I'm hoping at some point to get pretty on-demand out to 5-600yds.

Any input or help/ commentary would be awesome. Also, if anyone else has tracked like this and is willing to show a whole cut up video I think it's helpful at least for me to diagnose my own sessions.

 

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Here's a couple very rough, off the cuff observations (and I'm no expert long range shooter). Other than your shots that look like you had an incorrect wind call or low elevation, the shots all look to be in a pretty random cone of fire.

Did you try any groups with the same wind holds to see how your dispersion was at 700? I have found myself going crazy to figure out if a miss was off due to a bad wind call or normal shot dispersion.
 
Here's a couple very rough, off the cuff observations (and I'm no expert long range shooter). Other than your shots that look like you had an incorrect wind call or low elevation, the shots all look to be in a pretty random cone of fire.

Did you try any groups with the same wind holds to see how your dispersion was at 700? I have found myself going crazy to figure out if a miss was off due to a bad wind call or normal shot dispersion.
Good question, I use 3rd magazines so the most in a "group" is 4. Once I found a windcall that was "close" I tried to hold the elevation "Consistent" I think around shot 10 I noticed my elevation dope was off and I came up around 1/2 moa. Like I said, the wind was very tricky and my head was telling me a big gust was a 4min hold. It wasn't. I could spot most of my shots so I made corrections unless I wanted to verify that it was an incorrect wind call like shots 20 and 21. I remember the wind started whipping and I shot 2 at a 4 min hold, saw both were the same basic windage off, brought it back to close to zero and impacted with 22-24.
For this session, I was trying to learn, even if I wasn't hitting the plate and seeing how I could make corrections and how quickly I was making them, In the full length videos, I noticed it was on average 9 - 15ish seconds in a follow-up if I needed to make a large correction.

Edit to add:
Next week, I am switching to my hunting load 147ELDM factory in prep for my antelope hunt. I am hoping that ammo is more consistent at distance and I won't have as much dispersion just from the ammo. I plan to verify out at 700 just to get my drops but I am thinking that 400yds is going to be max range for antelope.
 
Also, I have so many guys in my "hunting community" that talk about 500 -800 yd shots as doable and they would take them. Every time I go out and practice come away shaking my head that my distance is much shorter than a lot of my friends and I'm hoping at some point to get pretty on-demand out to 5-600yds.
How many of those "800 yd" guys actually practice like you're doing? I keep finding that the people who only shoot calm days from a benchrest talk real confidently about how far they can shoot. The few I know who actually shoot a lot in the mountains from real positions with wind are much more conservative, despite practicing more.
 
Good job describing it all - it’s always interesting riding along with someone. Quite honestly from how you’ve described it my wind call would have been very close to what you started with.

Winds are interesting, blowing up down and around in ways that aren’t always easy to visualize. As the wind comes over the trees you’re shooting at it might be curling, or just dipping real good pushing rounds down. Unless it’s out in the flats, judging what direction wind is blowing down range is a challenge. The difference between a 2 o’clock wind and 1 o’clock is often beyond what I can see.

The goal this year is to stretch my effective range from 500 to 600 yards and so far I don’t see it happening because of my inability to read difficult situations like what you were shooting it. When I assemble a list in 100 yard increments of what wind errors still allow shots to be doable, combined with the cone of fire, the amount of acceptable wind drops quickly until only a few mph past 500 yards, and I can’t usually see 2 mph at that range. There are dead still mornings, but even then +- 1 mph can easily creep in, especially with ridge top mountain terrain.

Everyone should practice like you do. 🙂
 
How many of those "800 yd" guys actually practice like you're doing? I keep finding that the people who only shoot calm days from a benchrest talk real confidently about how far they can shoot. The few I know who actually shoot a lot in the mountains from real positions with wind are much more conservative, despite practicing more.

I keep finding people who have no idea how far 800 yards is and who can’t shoot better than 8 MOA at 100 yards talking about taking 800 yard shots on game. A lot of advertisements for the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Even people I consider good shots get humbled really quickly by an 8” plate at 400-500 yards in field conditions. Making the right wind call is an art. You can use a rangefinder for the elevation and then dial for it, but at anything over 200 yards, you need to be able to read the wind and make the appropriate call and hold to hit anything consistently.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”
 
I think the hardest part for me in those conversations is the look of disappointment when I saw something like" I think my max is like 500 on elk maybe 550 if everything is right and I have as much control as I can on the situation. And I have one friend in particular who I am pretty sure thinks that you can just dial and shoot no matter the range. He had a shot on an elk last year at 675yds. Shot once and went to track it. Right after his shot my other buddy had a shot on a small bull at 450yds and the wind call was about 2min. We went and started processing his bull. When my buddy got back I got his full story, I asked him how much wind he held on it and he said nothing. I said well, I don't think you were even close to the elk then At 675 his wind call would have been more like 5-6 with the direction he was shooting.
I don't like being the guy who starts telling everyone they're doing it wrong so I'm slowly pointing out things that I'm doing and thinking about in my shooting. One of my guys literally said " Aim high and let 'er fly" after describing their process of shooting at a bull at 500 yds couple of years ago. I just said "No" and walked away.
Anyway, I am just trying to develop as much knowledge as I can about shooting at distance and not get frustrated. That is hard, especially like Saturday when I only made 30% impact rate. But it's all of the info I gathered that is hopefully making me better in the future.
 
Wind will humble your ass pretty quick. Toss in a canyon or two and it gets ugly sometimes :ROFLMAO:

Come the wet season get up there on a foggy/cloudy day. You can see what the wind is doing. You can learn a lot watching it
I think the hardest part for me in those conversations is the look of disappointment when I saw something like" I think my max is like 500 on elk maybe 550 if everything is right and I have as much control as I can on the situation. And I have one friend in particular who I am pretty sure thinks that you can just dial and shoot no matter the range.
I don't like being the guy who starts telling everyone they're doing it wrong so I'm slowly pointing out things that I'm doing and thinking about in my shooting. One of my guys literally said " Aim high and let 'er fly" after describing their process of shooting at a bull at 500 yds couple of years ago.

Those folks are clueless and always will be. Why even bother? Sit back enjoy the line of shit they are spewing and let it be. You wont ever teach them anything, nor will they be able to shoot as far as they claim to.
 
Also, I would like a bigger plate to be able to have a lot more impacts and not have to scroll through videos and slow them down, but the 12 in is what I have and if the plate was any bigger it may be unmanageable.
I was thinking of making a waterline but even with the vertical dispersion, sad to say the 12 in plate is the waterline haha. I may just have to bring my drop validation to 550 or something to get reliable data.
 
I think the hardest part for me in those conversations is the look of disappointment when I saw something like" I think my max is like 500 on elk maybe 550 if everything is right and I have as much control as I can on the situation. And I have one friend in particular who I am pretty sure thinks that you can just dial and shoot no matter the range. He had a shot on an elk last year at 675yds. Shot once and went to track it. Right after his shot my other buddy had a shot on a small bull at 450yds and the wind call was about 2min. We went and started processing his bull. When my buddy got back I got his full story, I asked him how much wind he held on it and he said nothing. I said well, I don't think you were even close to the elk then At 675 his wind call would have been more like 5-6 with the direction he was shooting.
I don't like being the guy who starts telling everyone they're doing it wrong so I'm slowly pointing out things that I'm doing and thinking about in my shooting. One of my guys literally said " Aim high and let 'er fly" after describing their process of shooting at a bull at 500 yds couple of years ago. I just said "No" and walked away.
Anyway, I am just trying to develop as much knowledge as I can about shooting at distance and not get frustrated. That is hard, especially like Saturday when I only made 30% impact rate. But it's all of the info I gathered that is hopefully making me better in the future.
Yeah, I hear that. Best option is to invite them out shooting, hang a plate size or target that they agree on being reasonable, then dare them to hit it with their actual hunting setup. Even better is if they swear up and down about their sub MOA rifle, see if they can actually keep it to 1" at 100yds.

It's real hard convincing someone that they've totally overestimated their abilities, so more power to you if you can pull it off. The Backfire youtube channel at least has some good videos where some serious long-range shooters get totally skunked at their "maximum effective range". I've sent that to a few people hoping it nudges them in the right direction.

For the "send it and see what happens" crowd... man I got nothing. Walk away seems like the best path for your own sanity.
 
Yeah, I hear that. Best option is to invite them out shooting, hang a plate size or target that they agree on being reasonable, then dare them to hit it with their actual hunting setup. Even better is if they swear up and down about their sub MOA rifle, see if they can actually keep it to 1" at 100yds.
This is something I've stopped addressing. Everyone I hunt with has sub-moa rifles. I'm thoroughly convinced I'm the only one I know that has a 1.5moa gun. Which caps my distance as it is.
I don't even ask what their 10rd hunting position group is. I assume it's 3rd bipod or bench group.
I just nod my head and think "I suck" which is probably true.
 
Also, I would like a bigger plate to be able to have a lot more impacts and not have to scroll through videos and slow them down, but the 12 in is what I have and if the plate was any bigger it may be unmanageable.

For practice and just figuring things out, a nice cut bank is pretty hard to beat IMO. Big rock faces are nice, but the angles of them will sometimes lie to you about where you hit. I shoot a lot more rocks and banks than I do steel.
 
This is something I've stopped addressing. Everyone I hunt with has sub-moa rifles. I'm thoroughly convinced I'm the only one I know that has a 1.5moa gun. Which caps my distance as it is.
I don't even ask what their 10rd hunting position group is. I assume it's 3rd bipod or bench group.
I just nod my head and think "I suck" which is probably true.

I've been in the same boat. You won't care that a hunting buddy thinks he has a 0.5 MOA rifle up until the point you're tracking a wounded animal in the dark.
 
I've been in the same boat. You won't care that a hunting buddy thinks he has a 0.5 MOA rifle up until the point you're tracking a wounded animal in the dark.
I have been here and it's very frustrating. I understand crap happens in hunting, but a guy/girl has to be honest about their abilities before pulling the trigger.
 
Make it a 3-5 day per week occurrence on your calendar and reap the rewards 😎
Point well taken. I think I need a .223 for that amount of shooting, which is on the list for next year. But yeah, I notice the more I practice the more I am able to diagnose at this point.
Saturday, I shot about 50 un-suppressed un-braked 6.5cm, which is totally doable and much easier than my 300wsm, but it does take it's toll on the shoulder and pocket after a while.
 
Point well taken. I think I need a .223 for that amount of shooting, which is on the list for next year.

This is the way.
But yeah, I notice the more I practice the more I am able to diagnose at this point.
Indeed!
Saturday, I shot about 50 un-suppressed un-braked 6.5cm, which is totally doable and much easier than my 300wsm, but it does take its toll on the shoulder and pocket after a while.
That’s a good warm up 😜

Yeah I haven’t shot high rounds counts of heavy recoiling cartridges since well before 2010. And have sure caught a lot of shit from other “shooters” and “hunters” for it. Oh well.
 
I must say, I have shot more this year than any other year and I already have a better understanding of my capabilities and a desire to shoot even more.
Based on my boxes of empties, I've shot about +/-250 since the start of June, and I need to get in another order of ammo to keep it going. I know that is probably a day trip for some of you guys, I'm getting there.
 
I must say, I have shot more this year than any other year and I already have a better understanding of my capabilities and a desire to shoot even more.
Based on my boxes of empties, I've shot about +/-250 since the start of June, and I need to get in another order of ammo to keep it going. I know that is probably a day trip for some of you guys, I'm getting there.

Make sure you are learning as you shoot. Why did that shot hit where it did? Easy to get in a habbit of just lobbing rounds across a canyon, thats just wasting ammo IMO.


Also have you considered a 22lr?
 
Make sure you are learning as you shoot. Why did that shot hit where it did? Easy to get in a habbit of just lobbing rounds across a canyon, thats just wasting ammo IMO.


Also have you considered a 22lr?
I have a lot of 22LR from plain jane rugers to bolt actions set up for Longer stuff, but I haven't considered them for this type of shooting especially when there is a big difference just in the ammo for 22LR. Maybe I'll look into it. What would you think a scaled long range would be? 200yds?
 
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