7 SAW vs vanilla 7mm-08

This article gives a good history of the ELD-X's development and corroborates what I had heard from a former colleague who worked in ballistics, which is that it is derived from the A-MAX. Either way, the basic concept is a thinly jacketed cup-and-core projectile. I'm sure guys have had success with them, but I personally lost a nice animal shooting them once.

Not saying I'm the saltiest dude alive but I definitely know what a disappearing blood trail and a dead end tracking job looks like.
From the article: "Combining the Heat Shield Tip with a sophisticated jacket and Hornady’s Interlock design, the ELD-X bullet will be loaded with the best-available powder, primers and cases in the new Precision Hunter line of ammunition..."
At no point in that article does it say the ELD-X was derived from the A-Max. It only said that the A-Max was one of the first tipped rounds to work well and the tip increased a number of useful characteristics to the hunter like consistent BC values, initiate expansion, etc.

-Doc
 
My daughter's 18" Tikka 7-08 load is the following:

Alpha brass
CCI LRP
46.5 grains of SB 6.5
162 ELDX @ 2.925" COL
2,628 MV

So far she has killed one big cow elk at 185 yards. For perspective, I'm 6'1 and 225. Shot was in the crease quartering away and the bullet liquified the heart and lungs and shattered the far humerus/scapula ball joint. We recovered the intact bullet just under the offside hide. The cow stumbled a steps right then left and tipped over in its tracks.

This combination also groups exceedingly well. Attached is her best 10 shot group at 100 yards.

Sample size of one, no doubt, but I have tremendous confidence in this rifle from range sessions to field use and won't hesitate to have her use it on her next Western hunt.
 

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7mm-08 SAAMI
Pictures are
150 ELDX at 2.8 seated OAL
150 ELDX at 2.96 OAL (loose)
162 ELDX at 2.96 OAL (loose)


Rounding numbers.

150eldx
1.75 neck/shoulder junction + 1.2 BS/BT length = 2.95 ish OAL.

162 eldx
1.75 + 1.275 =3.025 ish
I just had a new barrel with a custom 7mm-08 chamber specifically for the 150 & 162 ELD-X. Using the SAAMI specs, I talked it through with my gunsmith and also made a call to Hornady to verify the bullet BT length, bearing surface length, and BTO of the bullet.

The math we used looked like this...

150 ELD-X bullet BTO is .730, less the bullet BT length (.205) and case neck length (.301), that leaves .224 case mouth to ogive, but the SAAMI chamber is only .206 to the ogive. On the 162, the bearing surface is longer and BTO is .810. Same calculation means the 162 needs .300 case mouth to ogive. Plus both need room to jump.

That puts the 150 at .250 needed with jump, or .050 over SAAMI. Whereas the math says a purely SAAMI spec'd chamber would be .020 short, and that would be with the bullet at the lands...so I guess if you jammed it .020 into the lands, you could get there, or there is a longer throat than what the specs call for on your rifle.

Math...¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Yes, the chamber is/ would have to be throated accordingly. I thought that was understood. In that regard, my reference to SAAMI wasn't accurate.

I was simply showing the alignment of such bullets in a SAAMI spec'd 7mm-08 brass and AICS binderless mags.
 
Yes, the chamber is/ would have to be throated accordingly. I thought that was understood. In that regard, my reference to SAAMI wasn't accurate.

I was simply showing the alignment of such bullets in a SAAMI spec'd 7mm-08 brass and AICS binderless mags.
What kind of MVs are you seeing with the 150 and 162?
 
I've swapped my tikka 7-08 over to long action, now shooting 162 eldms at 3.00 oal. Getting ~2610 fps at 46 gr of H4350 out of a 20" barrel. Close enough to a SAW for me.
 
I just had a new barrel with a custom 7mm-08 chamber specifically for the 150 & 162 ELD-X. Using the SAAMI specs, I talked it through with my gunsmith and also made a call to Hornady to verify the bullet BT length, bearing surface length, and BTO of the bullet.

The math we used looked like this...

150 ELD-X bullet BTO is .730, less the bullet BT length (.205) and case neck length (.301), that leaves .224 case mouth to ogive, but the SAAMI chamber is only .206 to the ogive. On the 162, the bearing surface is longer and BTO is .810. Same calculation means the 162 needs .300 case mouth to ogive. Plus both need room to jump.

That puts the 150 at .250 needed with jump, or .050 over SAAMI. Whereas the math says a purely SAAMI spec'd chamber would be .020 short, and that would be with the bullet at the lands...so I guess if you jammed it .020 into the lands, you could get there, or there is a longer throat than what the specs call for on your rifle.

Math...¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I just use a black sharpie and seat the bullet a little deeper each time until I don't have land marks any more. ;)
 
I've swapped my tikka 7-08 over to long action, now shooting 162 eldms at 3.00 oal. Getting ~2610 fps at 46 gr of H4350 out of a 20" barrel. Close enough to a SAW for me.
You're definitely leaving some MV on the table with that load in a 20" barrel, but if its shoots good then no reason to tinker.

EDIT: I also added LA bolt stop and use L mags. Although my 6.5 PRC mags work now too and give me an extra round in the mag.
 
You're definitely leaving some MV on the table with that load in a 20" barrel, but if its shoots good then no reason to tinker.

EDIT: I also added LA bolt stop and use L mags. Although my 6.5 PRC mags work now too and give me an extra round in the mag.
Your 6.5 staball load load makes me want to give it a shot! I've never had a load that accurate with 6.5SB, definitely awesome speed though.
 
Your 6.5 staball load load makes me want to give it a shot! I've never had a load that accurate with 6.5SB, definitely awesome speed though.

7-08 and 162 ELD-M loads going north of 2600 out of a short barrel are possible, but the powder is key. As noted above, Staball 6.5 will get there. Superformance will get there and have some really impressive velocities but I’ve found it to be quite temp sensitive. The latest one I’ve found is N550. Not quite as fast but I’ve found it be a little more predictable with pressure than the other two.


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7-08 and 162 ELD-M loads going north of 2600 out of a short barrel are possible, but the powder is key. As noted above, Staball 6.5 will get there. Superformance will get there and have some really impressive velocities but I’ve found it to be quite temp sensitive. The latest one I’ve found is N550. Not quite as fast but I’ve found it be a little more predictable with pressure than the other two.


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My NRL load this year was 160 tmks and 47 gr of staball 6.5. Was going 2790 but ~1.75 moa and HOT
 
7-08 and 162 ELD-M loads going north of 2600 out of a short barrel are possible, but the powder is key. As noted above, Staball 6.5 will get there. Superformance will get there and have some really impressive velocities but I’ve found it to be quite temp sensitive. The latest one I’ve found is N550. Not quite as fast but I’ve found it be a little more predictable with pressure than the other two.


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Agree and the real PIA is that GRT seems to hate the 7-08. IME, the pressures and velocities are all over the place. @Pharmseller and I have discussed this and his Big Game pet loads with the 150 ELDX and my 162 ELDX show significantly over max in GRT but show no pressure signs in real life. The max I tried in my rifle was 47.2 grains of SB 6.5, and I had clear ejector swipes on Alpha brass. Most importantly the groups weren't great, probably "good enough" for hunting, but not enough for my OCD. After dropping to 46.5 it has just been boringly predictable and dare I say "forgiving" shooting this load if your mechanics aren't perfect.

@9.3koolaid- I ran several different sims with your 20" barrel, 3.0 COL, and 162 with multiple powders and couldn't find anything that would consistently exceed 2650. As a result, I think you have some gains in MV possible, but please proceed with caution. Longer barrels generally do better with slower burning powders, but GRT didn't reveal a stand out contender.

If you wan't to go the opposite route, there are some loads with the 120 NBT in an 18" barrel that can cook around 2900 MV. There are multiple guys on here that firmly stand behind this bullet with multiple years of success on big game. At 2900 MV you effectively negate the BC advantage of the 162 inside say 400-500 yards. You also get recoil relief although the 162 load with a suppressor is already a peach to shoot.
 
I’m a little late to this party but I feel the need to chime in because I have a lot of experience loading 7mm08. It’s the cartridge I have the most experience with and what to expect in terms of velocity with various powders and bullets. I’ve loaded for 6 different barrels ranging from 20” to 26”. A few thoughts on the 7 SAW and the 7mm08:

- Lots of people online posting BS performance numbers with both cartridges. With a 7mm08 you can expect ~2800 with a 140, 2700 with a 150 and 2600 with a 160. Obviously there is some variation depending on barrel length but don’t expect 2700fps with a 162 even with a 26” barrel. There is no free lunch, if you are seeing fantastic performance then you are high pressure. IDGAF whether you are seeing “pressure signs”

- 7 SAW does not have pressure data. WTO will never release pressure test results. Neither will Alpha Munitions. The 7 SAW has about a 5% increase in case capacity and a longer throat. It will have increased performance but no where near claimed numbers. There is nothing special about the design, they are just running high pressure.
 
- Lots of people online posting BS performance numbers with both cartridges. With a 7mm08 you can expect ~2800 with a 140, 2700 with a 150 and 2600 with a 160. Obviously there is some variation depending on barrel length but don’t expect 2700fps with a 162 even with a 26” barrel. There is no free lunch, if you are seeing fantastic performance then you are high pressure. IDGAF whether you are seeing “pressure signs”
No BS in my numbers whatsoever, and IDC how long you've loaded the 7-08. If I can get real world 2628 avg. MV in an 18" barrel with the 162 ELDX at 2.925 COL, I would bet you $100 bill that a guy can get 2700 MV with a 162 ELDX in a 26" barrel with a slower powder.

EDIT: If you don't believe me, which is fine, here is Berger QL data for the 140, at SAAMI 2.8" COAL, in a 24" barrel. You say to expect ~2800 with a 140, and in general that checks out, but there are a handful of loads, that are 2800 and even 2900 plus on this sheet. Put them in a 26" barrel and adjust seating depth out, and you should reasonably get 2900 and then some consistently without being over pressure.
 

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I’m a little late to this party but I feel the need to chime in because I have a lot of experience loading 7mm08. It’s the cartridge I have the most experience with and what to expect in terms of velocity with various powders and bullets. I’ve loaded for 6 different barrels ranging from 20” to 26”. A few thoughts on the 7 SAW and the 7mm08:

- Lots of people online posting BS performance numbers with both cartridges. With a 7mm08 you can expect ~2800 with a 140, 2700 with a 150 and 2600 with a 160. Obviously there is some variation depending on barrel length but don’t expect 2700fps with a 162 even with a 26” barrel. There is no free lunch, if you are seeing fantastic performance then you are high pressure. IDGAF whether you are seeing “pressure signs”

- 7 SAW does not have pressure data. WTO will never release pressure test results. Neither will Alpha Munitions. The 7 SAW has about a 5% increase in case capacity and a longer throat. It will have increased performance but no where near claimed numbers. There is nothing special about the design, they are just running high pressure.
7 saw case capacity is essentially the same as 7mm-08. Folks are reporting 53-54 grains H2O for the SAW, and 52-55 for the 7-08.
 
Sorry, I just saw your question. My barrel is 18" Bartlein 5R throated to seat 150eldx and 162eldx at 2.94 OAL. 7mm-08 Suppressed.

With 150eldx, slower powders like IMR 4350 and Varget yield 2550 - 2600
Big Game I get 2600 - 2700fps
Staball 6.5 I get 2700 plus, although I have taken it beyond 2800.

I haven't tried any other powders though. I have a load with each of the powders listed that produces .50 MOA or better at various velocities, but it is a very well-built rifle that shoots everything great. For local deer killing I run the slow 4350 or Varget because I have a ton of it and I don't need to stretch...
 
No BS in my numbers whatsoever, and IDC how long you've loaded the 7-08. If I can get real world 2628 avg. MV in an 18" barrel with the 162 ELDX at 2.925 COL, I would bet you $100 bill that a guy can get 2700 MV with a 162 ELDX in a 26" barrel with a slower powder.

EDIT: If you don't believe me, which is fine, here is Berger QL data for the 140, at SAAMI 2.8" COAL, in a 24" barrel. You say to expect ~2800 with a 140, and in general that checks out, but there are a handful of loads, that are 2800 and even 2900 plus on this sheet. Put them in a 26" barrel and adjust seating depth out, and you should reasonably get 2900 and then some consistently without being over pressure.
Thanks, they’re pretty conservative with that Big Game max load. Plenty of us using more than 44.6 grains with a 140, I was at 47.0 with 140 accubond getting 2,850 from a 22” barrel. 47.5 got me 2,890 but not as good accuracy as the 47.0.
 
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