6gt or 6creed

[SDHNTR]

I went through the same decisions and wound up with the GT. It’s just nice for a multitude of reasons to burn less powder.

 

[TaperPin]

Nosler's capacity in their load data is "useable capacity" based upon a certain bullet seated to a certain depth so not always a great representation. In this case, the difference between the two cartridges with the #'s you listed is probably pretty representative.

This hornady "pulling the wool over" because they designed a cartridge with a 62k SAAMI max pressure is silly though. Did winchester "pull the wool over peoples eyes" 100 years ago because the 270 win had a 65k PSI max pressure?

In the case of basically all of the creedmoors, hornady was dragged to them by enthusiasts who were wildcatting them as alternatives to existing 260, 243, etc already.

I don’t think competition shooters or anyone with a custom barrel really cared about the creedmoor prior to it being released, despite marketing claims to the contrary - they were already shooting whatever cartridge they wanted. Custom barreled 260s were common and the private equity group that bought Remington was running the company into the ground, so it was smart for Hornady to take advantage of the situation. The Creedmoor was brought out and marketed heavily to Joe average, which is fine, it’s America. Take away Hornady’s marketing budget and I just don’t see the benefit you claim people were clamoring for. Neither here nor there, Hornady spends a lot of money advertising and people buy it up. It’s easy to get ammo, brass and dies so it gets used.

George Gardner has said in interviews he didn’t think any of the small 6mm were needed, so what changed with the 6gt? He saw guys like Tubbs and his 6xc making a buck on smaller 6mms and jumped in, not surprising Gardner jumped in with Hornady.

Same for any of the marketing driven cartridges. Take away all the advertising and the ones that survive filled a niche, and the others might as well be a sham wow on QVC.

 

[Coleredding00]

I don’t think competition shooters or anyone with a custom barrel really cared about the creedmoor prior to it being released, despite marketing claims to the contrary - they were already shooting whatever cartridge they wanted. Custom barreled 260s were common and the private equity group that bought Remington was running the company into the ground, so it was smart for Hornady to take advantage of the situation. The Creedmoor was brought out and marketed heavily to Joe average, which is fine, it’s America. Take away Hornady’s marketing budget and I just don’t see the benefit you claim people were clamoring for. Neither here nor there, Hornady spends a lot of money advertising and people buy it up. It’s easy to get ammo, brass and dies so it gets used.

George Gardner has said in interviews he didn’t think any of the small 6mm were needed, so what changed with the 6gt? He saw guys like Tubbs and his 6xc making a buck on smaller 6mms and jumped in, not surprising Gardner jumped in with Hornady.

Same for any of the marketing driven cartridges. Take away all the advertising and the ones that survive filled a niche, and the others might as well be a sham wow on QVC.

Marketing is definitely a huge factor, but all they did was bring a SAAMI approved line of cartridges to the public market in a quantity that made them appealing to non hand loaders. In the world of cartridges, there is literally nothing new under the sun, if you can think of it someone has wildcatted it, but they’re impossible to standardize because there is always a dozen reamers with different necks and freebores etc. That is the exact reason the 6 dasher will never be accepted into saami, there is so many reamers that an ammo manufacturer could never produce ammo for it and give it a blanket statement as safe, even though it is far and above the most popular cartridge in PRS. So saying that “X cartridge is just Y cartridge with a different twist and shoulder angle and overall length and body taper” seems like an exercise in mental masturbation to justify why no one should do anything new. If Hornady would have came out with an “improved” 260 Remington, someone would have hammered the bolt closed on grandpas Remington with the wrong ammunition and blow himself up. Coming out with the creedmoor gave them a clean slate to standardize a cartridge to use their modern bullets in an appropriate twist. And they should have done 22 and 25 sooner. People wildcatted those and they had to scramble to get approval so they could sell ammunition for them without someone using the ammunition in the wrong chamber. They already stated that the freebore on the 22 creedmoor was not what they originally would have went with, but there was enough rifles on the wild sold by horizon that they had to go with the flow to not have issues (and there still was some early on). The 6gt is their crack at the same thing except for a PRS cartridge to compete with the 6 dasher, and it’s working too. 6gt is climbing in popularity rapidly.

In the long run, there genuinely isn’t anything the creedmoor Cartridges can Do that you couldn’t do with a fast twist 243, 260, or 257 Roberts AI, other then give you the opportunity to buy ammunition at bobs gun shop in nowhere Colorado, for a rifle you bought at scheels for $800. Same goes for the PRCs, there was a 7 mag, a 300 win and a 264 win mag for decades but the bullets in factory ammo had the BC of a partially peeled potato.

 

[nm.otter]

In the long run, there genuinely isn’t anything the creedmoor Cartridges can Do that you couldn’t do with a fast twist 243, 260, or 257 Roberts AI, other then give you the opportunity to buy ammunition at bobs gun shop in nowhere Colorado

...and know that it will chamber and shoot out of any off-the-shelf rifle.

 

[pathnz]

I don’t think competition shooters or anyone with a custom barrel really cared about the creedmoor prior to it being released, despite marketing claims to the contrary - they were already shooting whatever cartridge they wanted. Custom barreled 260s were common and the private equity group that bought Remington was running the company into the ground, so it was smart for Hornady to take advantage of the situation. The Creedmoor was brought out and marketed heavily to Joe average, which is fine, it’s America. Take away Hornady’s marketing budget and I just don’t see the benefit you claim people were clamoring for. Neither here nor there, Hornady spends a lot of money advertising and people buy it up. It’s easy to get ammo, brass and dies so it gets used.

George Gardner has said in interviews he didn’t think any of the small 6mm were needed, so what changed with the 6gt? He saw guys like Tubbs and his 6xc making a buck on smaller 6mms and jumped in, not surprising Gardner jumped in with Hornady.

Same for any of the marketing driven cartridges. Take away all the advertising and the ones that survive filled a niche, and the others might as well be a sham wow on QVC.

So what? They exist and they're good options to select

 

[Kimber7man]

I don’t think competition shooters or anyone with a custom barrel really cared about the creedmoor prior to it being released, despite marketing claims to the contrary - they were already shooting whatever cartridge they wanted. Custom barreled 260s were common and the private equity group that bought Remington was running the company into the ground, so it was smart for Hornady to take advantage of the situation. The Creedmoor was brought out and marketed heavily to Joe average, which is fine, it’s America. Take away Hornady’s marketing budget and I just don’t see the benefit you claim people were clamoring for. Neither here nor there, Hornady spends a lot of money advertising and people buy it up. It’s easy to get ammo, brass and dies so it gets used.

George Gardner has said in interviews he didn’t think any of the small 6mm were needed, so what changed with the 6gt? He saw guys like Tubbs and his 6xc making a buck on smaller 6mms and jumped in, not surprising Gardner jumped in with Hornady.

Same for any of the marketing driven cartridges. Take away all the advertising and the ones that survive filled a niche, and the others might as well be a sham wow on QVC.

Tell us you don’t know George without telling us…..

 

[Durdy1]

That’s the exact info I was looking for. Thank you.

 

[wind gypsy]

I don’t think competition shooters or anyone with a custom barrel really cared about the creedmoor prior to it being released, despite marketing claims to the contrary - they were already shooting whatever cartridge they wanted. Custom barreled 260s were common and the private equity group that bought Remington was running the company into the ground, so it was smart for Hornady to take advantage of the situation. The Creedmoor was brought out and marketed heavily to Joe average, which is fine, it’s America. Take away Hornady’s marketing budget and I just don’t see the benefit you claim people were clamoring for. Neither here nor there, Hornady spends a lot of money advertising and people buy it up. It’s easy to get ammo, brass and dies so it gets used.

George Gardner has said in interviews he didn’t think any of the small 6mm were needed, so what changed with the 6gt? He saw guys like Tubbs and his 6xc making a buck on smaller 6mms and jumped in, not surprising Gardner jumped in with Hornady.

Same for any of the marketing driven cartridges. Take away all the advertising and the ones that survive filled a niche, and the others might as well be a sham wow on QVC.

The origin story of 6.5 creedmoor is well covered.

What fueled the 6 creedmoor emergence? Team GAP dominating the PRS with it well before it was a saami cartridge.

22 creedmoor? Hornady seemed to not even want it but it took off on its own as a wildcat.

25 creedmoor is the darling of NRL also wildcatted with alpha and Peterson headstamped brass well before being saami.

 

[TaperPin]

The origin story of 6.5 creedmoor is well covered.

What fueled the 6 creedmoor emergence? Team GAP dominating the PRS with it well before it was a saami cartridge.

22 creedmoor? Hornady seemed to not even want it but it took off on its own as a wildcat.

25 creedmoor is the darling of NRL also wildcatted with alpha and Peterson headstamped brass well before being saami.

I will have to admit I’m not the poster child for early adopters and there was obviously plenty of demand for many things.

 

[TaperPin]

Tell us you don’t know George without telling us…..

Lol
He’s in business to make money - you can believe whatever stories you like. There are entire books written for marketing dedicated to the value of telling compelling stories in interviews and advertising.

 

[TaperPin]

Marketing is definitely a huge factor, but all they did was bring a SAAMI approved line of cartridges to the public market in a quantity that made them appealing to non hand loaders. In the world of cartridges, there is literally nothing new under the sun, if you can think of it someone has wildcatted it, but they’re impossible to standardize because there is always a dozen reamers with different necks and freebores etc. That is the exact reason the 6 dasher will never be accepted into saami, there is so many reamers that an ammo manufacturer could never produce ammo for it and give it a blanket statement as safe, even though it is far and above the most popular cartridge in PRS. So saying that “X cartridge is just Y cartridge with a different twist and shoulder angle and overall length and body taper” seems like an exercise in mental masturbation to justify why no one should do anything new. If Hornady would have came out with an “improved” 260 Remington, someone would have hammered the bolt closed on grandpas Remington with the wrong ammunition and blow himself up. Coming out with the creedmoor gave them a clean slate to standardize a cartridge to use their modern bullets in an appropriate twist. And they should have done 22 and 25 sooner. People wildcatted those and they had to scramble to get approval so they could sell ammunition for them without someone using the ammunition in the wrong chamber. They already stated that the freebore on the 22 creedmoor was not what they originally would have went with, but there was enough rifles on the wild sold by horizon that they had to go with the flow to not have issues (and there still was some early on). The 6gt is their crack at the same thing except for a PRS cartridge to compete with the 6 dasher, and it’s working too. 6gt is climbing in popularity rapidly.

In the long run, there genuinely isn’t anything the creedmoor Cartridges can Do that you couldn’t do with a fast twist 243, 260, or 257 Roberts AI, other then give you the opportunity to buy ammunition at bobs gun shop in nowhere Colorado, for a rifle you bought at scheels for $800. Same goes for the PRCs, there was a 7 mag, a 300 win and a 264 win mag for decades but the bullets in factory ammo had the BC of a partially peeled potato.

Hard to disagree with any of that.

 

[Kaleb]

Lol
He’s in business to make money - you can believe whatever stories you like. There are entire books written for marketing dedicated to the value of telling compelling stories in interviews and advertising.

Maybe it's true maybe it isn't but he's not selling some bs either. What I mean is it's not like you've made a mistake by buying one mild mannered chambering over the other. If you're hand loading and I assume most people who bother with internet reading and custom rifles are then it's not the end of the world if you have a xc gt arc br dasher cm 243 etc. Maybe I'm gullible or just giving the benefit of the doubt but I believe those fellas believe in what they're selling.

 

[TaperPin]

Social media is such a huge factor in marketing today, and story telling works so well anyone selling products, services or ideas should educate themselves on it. It’s also one way consumers are manipulated.

 

[Coleredding00]

Social media is such a huge factor in marketing today, and story telling works so well anyone selling products, services or ideas should educate themselves on it. It’s also one way consumers are manipulated.
View attachment 990099

I don’t think anyone will disagree that marketing has became a psychology game, there’s a reason the milk is in the back of the store after all. But i don’t see how that changes the legitimate innovation and standardization that has been brought to the industry. It has still been a net positive for all of us.

 

[wind gypsy]

I don’t think anyone will disagree that marketing has became a psychology game, there’s a reason the milk is in the back of the store after all. But i don’t see how that changes the legitimate innovation and standardization that has been brought to the industry. It has still been a net positive for all of us.

Crazy just to look at what brass is available and the powder dispensing options compared to 10 years ago. I remember when 8+ months for a barrel was normal and expected..

 

[TaperPin]

I don’t think anyone will disagree that marketing has became a psychology game, there’s a reason the milk is in the back of the store after all. But i don’t see how that changes the legitimate innovation and standardization that has been brought to the industry. It has still been a net positive for all of us.

I’m all for innovation and to be honest even if something makes no sense and has no redeeming qualities, if someone just has a gut feeling they want one, I’m all for it and will be first to get them one for Christmas. However, it doesn’t hurt to filter out biases in the information we consume and base decisions on. We may love the CEO of XYZ Motorcycle Co, but rest assured when he talks bikes he’s not bringing up aspects of ABC Super Bike Inc. that are clearly better, or even equally as good.

I really like the explosion of interest in long range rifles and opportunities companies have to make some good gear and have a viable market that might have been too small in the past. Unfortunately, what I see is lighting on innovation and heavy on superficial things that can be packaged to sell to the mass market. With new barrel making CNC machines why are we still struggling to get consistent sub MOA barrels at a cheaper price, but damn we have 12 different fluting options, 99 Cerakote colors, 30 muzzle brake options and as many cans.

How is a Nosler Ballistic tip from the 1980s or Partition from the 1950s still considered good bullets after 40 and 70 years of innovation by competitors.

How are Remington clones not able to build a receiver that will clearly show on paper it’s better than a model 721 from the 1950s.

How are steel two piece Mark 4 scope mounts from the 1980’s still more reliable than almost all of what available today. One piece base is the best improvement we can do?

In lightweight guns…

I’m just yelling at airplanes at this point. lol

 

[hereinaz]

I’m all for innovation and to be honest even if something makes no sense and has no redeeming qualities, if someone just has a gut feeling they want one, I’m all for it and will be first to get them one for Christmas. However, it doesn’t hurt to filter out biases in the information we consume and base decisions on. We may love the CEO of XYZ Motorcycle Co, but rest assured when he talks bikes he’s not bringing up aspects of ABC Super Bike Inc. that are clearly better, or even equally as good.

I really like the explosion of interest in long range rifles and opportunities companies have to make some good gear and have a viable market that might have been too small in the past. Unfortunately, what I see is lighting on innovation and heavy on superficial things that can be packaged to sell to the mass market. With new barrel making CNC machines why are we still struggling to get consistent sub MOA barrels at a cheaper price, but damn we have 12 different fluting options, 99 Cerakote colors, 30 muzzle brake options and as many cans.

How is a Nosler Ballistic tip from the 1980s or Partition from the 1950s still considered good bullets after 40 and 70 years of innovation by competitors.

How are Remington clones not able to build a receiver that will clearly show on paper it’s better than a model 721 from the 1950s.

How are steel two piece Mark 4 scope mounts from the 1980’s still more reliable than almost all of what available today. One piece base is the best improvement we can do?

In lightweight guns…

I’m just yelling at airplanes at this point. lol

Just telling a story here…

 

[khuber84]

Crazy just to look at what brass is available and the powder dispensing options compared to 10 years ago. I remember when 8+ months for a barrel was normal and expected..

Still is when placing a direct order from Bartlein, Kreiger, Benchmark(carbon). I ordered a fast twist 20cal from Kreiger 2 years ago, it showed up mid Oct!

 

[wind gypsy]

Still is when placing a direct order from Bartlein, Kreiger, Benchmark(carbon). I ordered a fast twist 20cal from Kreiger 2 years ago, it showed up mid Oct!

yeah, i'm just saying with a gunsmith. No way i'd wait that long for a barrel to get chambered these days.

 

[khuber84]

yeah, i'm just saying with a gunsmith. No way i'd wait that long for a barrel to get chambered these days.

1000% agree! That's insane. LOTS of adequate gun plummer out there, and quite a few really good ones.