6CM: 103 ELDX vs 109 ELDM

[bonepoint]

I picked up a Springfield Waypoint 6 CM and have it narrowed down to the 109 ELDM and 103 ELDX

The 109 ELDM is right at 2,950 FPS and the 103 ELDX is right at 3,000. Both with 41.5g RL16. Both shoot equal groups at same POI. The faster 103 makes up for the lower BC and makes them pretty much ballistic twins out to 700 yards.

I have read many comments on here that several prefer the ELDMs over the ELDXs for hunting. There seems to be a lot more field data on the 108M (over the 109M), but am assuming they behave the same on game.

Those that have used both, any noticeable differences between how the 108/109M and the 103X perform on game? Does the 103X hold together better or penetrate deeper? 109M more violent?

Regardless of which of the two I settle on I know that both are pretty soft, so I am considering loading up a second bullet that is less destructive for the kids taking meat does at closer range. They don't always hit them where they are supposed to, and I don't want a mess. 95 NBT, 100 interlock? Are the 105 scenars harder bullets, too?

 

[justin davis]

Berger 108 elite hunter

 

[glock233]

You don't say what you are hunting. Below deer size, it doesn't matter which you choose, either will kill effectively.

At deer size or larger, they will also perform similarly. The difference comes in that the ELDM is slightly more likely to "grenade" or possibly deform and deflect. That's because the ELDX has a thicker jacket, interlock ring, and therefore holds itself together a bit better. Thus it would be my choice for larger things.

To me, it seems like the ELDX is the choice that would cover all of your applications. Also, it isn't that meat destructive. That's very overstated. If you are concerned about it, ELDX is slightly better.

 

[bonepoint]

Berger 108 elite hunter

I tried those first, but the rifle just did not like them. I tried several different seating depths and a couple powders. It loved the 108M, 109M, and 103X, but I couldn't get the 108 EHs under MOA.

 

[bonepoint]

You don't say what you are hunting. Below deer size, it doesn't matter which you choose, either will kill effectively.

At deer size or larger, they will also perform similarly. The difference comes in that the ELDM is slightly more likely to "grenade" or possibly deform and deflect. That's because the ELDX has a thicker jacket, interlock ring, and therefore holds itself together a bit better. Thus it would be my choice for larger things.

To me, it seems like the ELDX is the choice that would cover all of your applications. Also, it isn't that meat destructive. That's very overstated. If you are concerned about it, ELDX is slightly better.

Deer and antelope. Possibly cow elk, but would likely use a larger rifle.

I would expect just as you wrote knowing the construction differences, but seems field reports don't always match that. I have seen people say the 103X is harder bullet than many of the other ELDXs, and others say the 103X didn't even make it to the far shoulder on deer sized game. So, just looking for more field data.

 

[glock233]

Deer and antelope. Possibly cow elk, but would likely use a larger rifle.

I would expect just as you wrote knowing the construction differences, but seems field reports don't always match that. I have seen people say the 103X is harder bullet than many of the other ELDXs, and others say the 103X didn't even make it to the far shoulder on deer sized game. So, just looking for more field data.

Field reports are generally horseshit anecdotes from people who don't know what they are looking at or what significant data is. Even if they did, the sample size isn't large enough.

Hornady says to use the ELDX in your question. There's nothing about the ELDM that will make it penetrates deeper than the ELDX. If anecdotes lead you that direction, the anecdotes should be questioned.

It's true that the 103X is harder than say the 143X in 6.5mm (similar jacket on less mass), but I don't think that's anything to worry about in a 6mm Creed. It becomes intellectually interesting in the 6mm ARC at lower velocities at long range.

One more thing---I am in the minority here but I would not use 6mm Creed on a Cow Elk. While it would generally work, when I see things going wrong in 6mm, it's from sub-ideal shots that are deflected in an animal that size.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

I’ll take field reports with actual wounds over regurgitated marketing speak or “retained mass” etc etc, but that’s because I haven’t seen a lot of people giving bad anecdotes on here. Where I’ve read field accounts and posts with results the discussion has been quite useful, especially with the larger volumes of it the last few years.

ne more thing---I am in the minority here but I would not use 6mm Creed on a Cow Elk.

Witnessed a 108gr absolutely wreck one right at 500 yards, granted it was a 6PRC so started out at a higher muzzle vel. Nothing wrong with your opinion here though - have you shot or seen one killed with 6 creed where it was a poor outcome, that’s led to that opinion? I’ve shot one with a 6.5cm using monos and it was sub-par for sure.

 

[Tanner]

The most sub-par bullet performance I’ve ever personally had was 180 TTSX out of a 300 AI on a cow elk… or perhaps a 110 Accubond via 25/06…

OP, I think I’d use either with supreme confidence and not give a second thought to using them on a cow elk. 95gr NPT could be worth a thought for your kids on closer range meat does.

 

[AZ_Hunter]

The most sub-par bullet performance I’ve ever personally had was 180 TTSX out of a 300 AI on a cow elk… or perhaps a 110 Accubond via 25/06…

OP, I think I’d use either with supreme confidence and not give a second thought to using them on a cow elk. 95gr NPT could be worth a thought for your kids on closer range meat does.

What happened with the 110AB?

 

[wind gypsy]

I dont think you can go wrong with either. I shoot the 109 in mine, for the BC specifically vs 108 and 103. I assumed the 109 would have a bit of a wind deflection advantage with the velocities in the OP but AB aligns with OP on ballistics being basically the same. With that, the 103 might have a slight edge for me.

Besides my assumption on ballistics being challenged, this thread also helped me realize that the 109s are now available from vendors other than GAP for a lot cheaper than GAP sold them which is good news.

Edit: I dont particularly trust ABs #s being as good on ELDs as it is on Bergers. AB lists the 103x BC higher than Hornady and give it the same value as the 108m. Still even crunching #s of 103x at a 0.253 g7 @ 3k FPS vs a 109 at 0.285 g7 @ 2950 FPS still only gives 0.1 mil difference in full value 10 MPH wind at any distance I should be shooting at an animal.

 

[Tanner]

What happened with the 110AB?

Pretty wild actually. Back in 2012, I shot a really big Muley at 120 or so yards right in the point of the shoulder. Buck took off straight up hill, acting like he wasn’t even hit. I grazed his back running but missed another follow up shot. We tracked him into the thick timber and I killed him bedded at about 20 yards.

The first bullet zooked as soon as it hit flesh and just made a giant bloody bruised mess out of the entrance shoulder and did almost zero damage internally. I was pretty shocked by that….

 

[justin davis]

Another thing to keep in mind is according to Hornady the ELDx is supposed to stay together better and penetrate better than the ELDm line. But I have seen the opposite sometimes. Seems like the ELDm stay together better and the ELDx can be more explosive.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

I picked up a Springfield Waypoint 6 CM and have it narrowed down to the 109 ELDM and 103 ELDX

The 109 ELDM is right at 2,950 FPS and the 103 ELDX is right at 3,000. Both with 41.5g RL16. Both shoot equal groups at same POI. The faster 103 makes up for the lower BC and makes them pretty much ballistic twins out to 700 yards.

I have read many comments on here that several prefer the ELDMs over the ELDXs for hunting. There seems to be a lot more field data on the 108M (over the 109M), but am assuming they behave the same on game.

Those that have used both, any noticeable differences between how the 108/109M and the 103X perform on game? Does the 103X hold together better or penetrate deeper? 109M more violent?

Regardless of which of the two I settle on I know that both are pretty soft, so I am considering loading up a second bullet that is less destructive for the kids taking meat does at closer range. They don't always hit them where they are supposed to, and I don't want a mess. 95 NBT, 100 interlock? Are the 105 scenars harder bullets, too?

Just curious did you ever try or consider the Barnes 112 Match Burners ?

 

[Formidilosus]

Field reports are generally horseshit anecdotes from people who don't know what they are looking at or what significant data is. Even if they did, the sample size isn't large enough.

Maybe read more of the forum before making sweeping statements.

Hornady says to use the ELDX in your question. There's nothing about the ELDM that will make it penetrates deeper than the ELDX. If anecdotes lead you that direction, the anecdotes should be questioned.

Hornady says lots of things.

Which do you believe is an ELD-M and which is the ELD-X?

One more thing---I am in the minority here but I would not use 6mm Creed on a Cow Elk. While it would generally work, when I see things going wrong in 6mm, it's from sub-ideal shots that are deflected in an animal that size.

Oh please share your experiences with 6mm’s deflecting in an elk…

 

[bonepoint]

Just curious did you ever try or consider the Barnes 112 Match Burners ?

No, I did not. I just tried the 108 berger and the 3 Hornadys, and figured something from that group would work.


Form,
I saw on another thread that you tested out a lot of these bullets on game. I read most of that. You mentioned you were going to be using the 103X coming up, but I didn't see the follow up on how you liked those compared to the others. Similar?

 

[bonepoint]

As for elk, I know the 6 CM could do the job if I needed it, but I will likely stick with my larger rifles for elk work, since I have them. The 7 PRC with the Scythe & anchor brake is so easy to shoot that my 12 y/o can shoot a box of ammo for fun. Seem crazy not use that on elk. If I did need the 6 CM in a pinch, I just wanted to make sure I was using a bullet that was going to reach the vitals and not detonate on the first bone it encountered.

 

[SouthPaw]

The difference comes in that the ELDM is slightly more likely to "grenade" or possibly deform and deflect. That's because the ELDX has a thicker jacket, interlock ring, and therefore holds itself together a bit better. Thus it would be my choice for larger things.

I have seen multiple ELDX completely separate jacket from the core. I have not seen an ELDM do this. Both are destructive at high speed but still penetrate plenty to kill even large elk.

 

[Formidilosus]

Form,
I saw on another thread that you tested out a lot of these bullets on game. I read most of that. You mentioned you were going to be using the 103X coming up, but I didn't see the follow up on how you liked those compared to the others. Similar?

Didn’t end up using them much because of 95gr TMK’s and the 93gr Copper Roses. They’ll get used this year I expect. What I have seen I like a bit better than the ELD-M’s- but it’s a small sample size.

 

[CBB1]

Didn’t end up using them much because of 95gr TMK’s and the 93gr Copper Roses. They’ll get used this year I expect. What I have seen I like a bit better than the ELD-M’s- but it’s a small sample size.

What did you like better about the 103s?


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[CBB1]

Maybe read more of the forum before making sweeping statements.






Hornady says lots of things.

Which do you believe is an ELD-M and which is the ELD-X?

View attachment 864062




Oh please share your experiences with 6mm’s deflecting in an elk…

So what are we looking at in that picture?


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