6.5 PRC Reloading Help

[bow_dozer]

I feel the prc is pretty easy to reload for across the board.
I settled with 156 EOL, ADG brass, 215M, 57g of RE26. I am at 2990 with a SD of 3 and .7's group.
24" Howa carbon barreled action.

 

[FLHunter87]

I feel the prc is pretty easy to reload for across the board.
I settled with 156 EOL, ADG brass, 215M, 57g of RE26. I am at 2990 with a SD of 3 and .7's group.
24" Howa carbon barreled action.

.7" group at what distance?

 

[bow_dozer]

.7" group at what distance?

100

 

[FLHunter87]

100

Why did you settle on. 7"? I would assume you could get tighter than that. Many people with burgers get around .3" at that distance? Unless your good with the .7" that's all that matters.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Why did you settle on. 7"? I would assume you could get tighter than that. Many people with burgers get around .3" at that distance? Unless your good with the .7" that's all that matters.

 

[SDHNTR]

View attachment 612789

I used to strive for that magical one hole sub .5 moa group. I went to great lengths and I don’t regret it because I learned a lot and I have a few rifles/loads I get to brag about, but alas, I’ve come to my senses.

I’m not a Benchrest shooter. I really don’t even know what that means, nor do I care. I’m a hunter and that’s all that I care about.

A .7 moa group is more, much more, than adequate for regularly repeated hits on game sized targets easily out to 1000 yards. Nowadays, when I work up a .7 moa group and I’m happy with the velocity data, I’m dunzo! Any more is a waste of components.

And wasn’t there an article floating around here that showed no appreciable improvement in hits vs misses between 1/2 and 1 moa groups? Someone queue that baby up please.

 

[FLHunter87]

I used to strive for that magical one hole sub .5 moa group. I went to great lengths and I don’t regret it because I learned a lot and I have a few rifles/loads I get to brag about, but alas, I’ve come to my senses.

I’m not a Benchrest shooter. I really don’t even know what that means, nor do I care. I’m a hunter and that’s all that I care about.

A .7 moa group is more, much more, than adequate for regularly repeated hits on game sized targets easily out to 1000 yards. Nowadays, when I work up a .7 moa group and I’m happy with the velocity data, I’m dunzo! Any more is a waste of components.

And wasn’t there an article floating around here that showed no appreciable improvement in hits vs misses between 1/2 and 1 moa groups? Someone queue that baby up please.

I used to strive for that magical one hole sub .5 moa group. I went to great lengths and I don’t regret it because I learned a lot and I have a few rifles/loads I get to brag about, but alas, I’ve come to my senses.

I’m not a Benchrest shooter. I really don’t even know what that means, nor do I care. I’m a hunter and that’s all that I care about.

A .7 moa group is more, much more, than adequate for regularly repeated hits on game sized targets easily out to 1000 yards. Nowadays, when I work up a .7 moa group and I’m happy with the velocity data, I’m dunzo! Any more is a waste of components.

And wasn’t there an article floating around here that showed no appreciable improvement in hits vs misses between 1/2 and 1 moa groups? Someone queue that baby up please.

I get it. I have a couple rifles I'm at peace with. I have been learning slowly and sometimes you'll keep chasing when it's not going to get there. I just learned that with one of my rifles a couple hundred dollars in bullets later.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I get it. I have a couple rifles I'm at peace with. I have been learning slowly and sometimes you'll keep chasing when it's not going to get there.I just learned that with one of my rifles a couple hundred dollars in bullets later.

I think the difference is in the missing context. If you're asking why someone settled for .7" groups and saying it's common for .3's, you're either a competent BR shooter with high end equipment, or you're talking about 3 shot groups. The insignificance of 3 shot groups is proven ad nauseam, so a lot of the time members are referencing 10 shot groups when they're talking about precision or group size. Got any .3" 10 shot groups to post?

 

[FLHunter87]

I think the difference is in the missing context. If you're asking why someone settled for .7" groups and saying it's common for .3's, you're either a competent BR shooter with high end equipment, or you're talking about 3 shot groups. The insignificance of 3 shot groups is proven ad nauseam, so a lot of the time members are referencing 10 shot groups when they're talking about precision or group size. Got any .3" 10 shot groups to post?

Not 10 shot but here's 6 at 200

 

[bow_dozer]

I used to strive for that magical one hole sub .5 moa group. I went to great lengths and I don’t regret it because I learned a lot and I have a few rifles/loads I get to brag about, but alas, I’ve come to my senses.

I’m not a Benchrest shooter. I really don’t even know what that means, nor do I care. I’m a hunter and that’s all that I care about.

A .7 moa group is more, much more, than adequate for regularly repeated hits on game sized targets easily out to 1000 yards. Nowadays, when I work up a .7 moa group and I’m happy with the velocity data, I’m dunzo! Any more is a waste of components.

And wasn’t there an article floating around here that showed no appreciable improvement in hits vs misses between 1/2 and 1 moa groups? Someone queue that baby up please.

, yup.

 

[Benjblt]

1/2moa is a nice place to be, but everything has to work together.

You have to be able to drive the rifle 1/2moa. A nice 2 lb trigger is much easier to control than a factory 4 lb. The stereotypical cast iron front rest and little owl ear front leather bag combined with rear bunny ear leather bag will get you to 1/2 moa faster than a different setup you have to struggle with - it’s a historical sure bet because it works. Boring, but it works. Bipods off the bench will often not shoot as well - test it if you must use a bipod. You can’t drive the rifle if you can’t see - I see guys struggle to get a small group using a 12” gong with bullet holes all over - no wonder.

Your barrel has to shoot 1/2moa. A $2k rifle doesn’t guarantee it - $1000 in reloading components won’t make a 1 moa rifle shoot 1/2 moa. Many guns in that price range can shoot that good, but just as many won’t. Learn how to clean the barrel and remove all copper fouling. You have to use a bore guide and one piece cleaning rod. I just run a copper remover on a patch over an undersized plastic brush. Just run it through once, turn it over & run it through again, wait 5 minutes and repeat until no copper green comes out, then two patches with oil and two patches to remove most of the oil. Use a 45 cal brush and larger dry patch to clean the chamber. A bore scope lets you see if things are clean - if a carbon ring or carbon fouling near the chamber develops use a bronze brush enough to break it up.

A new barrel is slick and pressures don’t develop as quickly for the first 100 rounds or so and velocities will be down, so shoot it 100 rounds then work up a load.

If you want an accurate load, follow someone who already has a 1/2 moa rifle and do what they do - don’t pick and choose a little from everyone’s techniques.

This is my method:
All brass is not the same - it’s not the exact same metal recipe. Lapua is harder brass and takes pressures better, and is well used by benchrest guys. Nosler brass or Hornady brass isn’t seen as much in benchrest, but you’re a mile away from benchrest so it probably doesn’t matter much, but buy the Lapua anyway.

Turn the necks so they are even - doesn’t matter what the number is, they just need to be even. Anneal case necks with a simple propane torch every reload, even new cases. Uniform the primer pockets each load. Case trimming for length doesn’t matter unless it’s past maximum - commonly accepted that his makes no difference in accuracy. Use a vld chamfer tool on new cases. Just wipe cases clean before sizing and again after to remove lube. Don’t touch the inside of the neck with lube and don’t brush out the carbon.

Prime with handheld tool. Don’t use old primers from your grandpa for accuracy loads.

Use a full length die that has bushings for adjusting neck tension. The neck bushing should leave the neck .003” smaller than the diameter after a bullet is seated. There is no expander needed. The shoulder should get set back just enough so there’s no pressure on the bolt as he cartridge is chambered - normally .001” to .002” setback from fired case.

Use a wilson straight line seating die and a small press made for that type of die.

Find the max seating depth your magazine can handle and still feed correctly. Darken a bullet with a sharpie and chamber the round - as long as the bullet isn’t into the lands with this seating, this is your max length.

Then get starting load from a manual and gradually increase until high pressure signs are obvious. That’s shows your max load at the max length.

Use the max load and adjust seating depth down in .003” increments for 3 shot groups - do this with 7 loads. This is adjusting barrel vibrations slightly to find the harmonics that produce the best groups. If none of them will shoot 1/2 moa that powder is out. If none of your powders will shoot then you either need to change bullets or get a new barrel.

If the rifle won’t shoot your first group out of the first powder and first bullet to under 1 moa I’d predict nothing will get it to 1/2 moa. Three shot groups will show what doesn’t shoot well, not what shoots the best - a 1 moa three-shot group can never shrink in size by putting more holes in the paper. If 1/2 moa is the goal, you don’t care if one load would shoot better, just eliminate the ones that shoot worse.

Get a log book, even if it’s just a $.49 spiral paper pad, and record everything you load and how it shoots.

I never mentioned a chronograph - it can’t help you go faster than a max load. The velocity sd doesn’t matter if it won’t shoot a tight group.

Best of luck - it’s a lot of fun.

Is this a good bushing die https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021618963?pid=398961 ? Is there a cheaper/better option?

 

[TaperPin]

To be honest I don’t recall anyone having good or bad things to say about RCBS, but that is a neck sizer die, rather than a full length die with neck bushings. Today almost everyone is using full length dies, even in the most demanding competitive shooting sports.

A lot of the newer mass produced dies are quite well made because of modern cnc machining. A few decades ago Forster was all everyone was talking about, but honestly today any difference would be astronomically small. Redding is also a popular brand.

Reloading | Reloading Dies & Bushings | Creedmoor Sports

Ammunition reloading dies and bushings.

www.creedmoorsports.com

 

[Benjblt]

To be honest I don’t recall anyone having good or bad things to say about RCBS, but that is a neck sizer die, rather than a full length die with neck bushings. Today almost everyone is using full length dies, even in the most demanding competitive shooting sports.

A lot of the newer mass produced dies are quite well made because of modern cnc machining. A few decades ago Forster was all everyone was talking about, but honestly today any difference would be astronomically small. Redding is also a popular brand.

Thanks for the feedback. I think I'm just going to go with a standard RCBS full length sizing die.

 

[Benjblt]

To be honest I don’t recall anyone having good or bad things to say about RCBS, but that is a neck sizer die, rather than a full length die with neck bushings. Today almost everyone is using full length dies, even in the most demanding competitive shooting sports.

A lot of the newer mass produced dies are quite well made because of modern cnc machining. A few decades ago Forster was all everyone was talking about, but honestly today any difference would be astronomically small. Redding is also a popular brand.

I watched this video and it was pretty convincing.

 

[TaperPin]

Thanks for the feedback. I think I'm just going to go with a standard RCBS full length sizing die.

Bang for the buck that’s not a bad way to go.

 

[TaperPin]

I watched this video and it was pretty convincing.

Usually I wouldn’t watch a video like that because neck sizing vs full length has been so well documented already, but I did just to see what his angle on the subject is. I’m not saying the video is wrong, only that it doesn’t communicate the full story.

Once fired brass fits the chamber better and will shoot better than new brass - that’s generally true.

With once fired brass, it is still slightly undersize and chambers easily even with neck sizing only. The more times it’s reloaded the tighter the case will get. A tight case and the smallest amount of debris in the chamber and you may not be able to close the bolt.

What may not be obvious about full length sizing recommendations, are they generally suggest a partial sizing, not running the die all the way into the shell holder. It’s good that the case matches the chamber, but by only pushing the shoulder back .002” or so you’ll get all the advantages of neck sizing, but cartridges chamber much easier and you don’t risk not being able to close the bolt.

His couple of groups aren’t wrong, and not to say he’s not credible, but this video shows guys that burn up multiple barrels every year and test everything over and over and are the best long range shooters in the country. (Remember how I said once fired brass is slightly undersized, the Savage shooter doesn’t say it specifically, but I‘d say he only neck sizes once fired brass.)

 

[sndmn11]

I get the Lee set because it works and comes with both the shell holder and crimp die. It's also inexpensive.

6.5 PRC Pacesetter 3-Die Set (LEE) | Duck Creek Sporting Goods

LEE #90662 Limited Edition Pacesetter 3-Die Set for 6.5 PRC -Includes full length sizing die, easy adjust dead length bullet seating die, factory…

www.duckcreeksportinggoods.com

 

[Coueskiller43]

If you can get your hands on the N560 give it a go. I run it in my 6.5 PRC with ADG brass and 210M primers pushing 124 HH at 3340. That’s on the upper end with a 24” tube. I’m not sure you would make 3400 fps with your 21” tube before reaching major pressure. I’ve had no experience with the Peterson brass. I load Lapua brass RL23 and the same 124 HH in my buddies Tikka. That gets about 3280.
RCBS dies will do the trick. Maybe consider pulling the expander ball and using a mandrel expander. I’ve also had good luck using the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

 

[Kimber7man]

Would you all say that N560 is a good powder choice or not temperature stable enough?

I'd say it's a good choice.
I went with 58.3 N560 in virgin Lapua brass with a 210M primer and 140 elite hunter. Got 2,950 out of a 20" barrel that only has 34 shots on it so far.
58.0 was 2,937
57.5 was 2,900

 

[Unckebob]

Is this a good bushing die https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021618963?pid=398961 ? Is there a cheaper/better option?

I am not an advanced reloader, but I will give you my POV from having started about 3 years ago.

Don't start with a bushing die. IMO, they are for advanced reloader who know exactly what they are trying to accomplish. In addition to the bushing die, you have to determine which bushing is right for the best accuracy. It is a giant rabbit hole that can be avoided until you are an expert reloader.

Based upon your choices of bullets, I assume you are loading as a hunter. All of the dies below should help you get to good accuracy.

Until you get the hang of everything, get a standard full length sizing die set.
- they can get you to moment of game animal rather easily.
- Over time, I have tried Hornady, RCBS, Redding, Lee and Forster dies.

• I prefer Hornady sets because I like their seating dies the best. Although not necessary, their micro adjust seating stem is awesome. I find them easy to use.
• I prefer, slightly, the Redding dies to RCBS for feel reasons. I have not seen a difference in quality.
• Forster dies: I love their micrometer seating dies. Their sizing dies are OK. They are more costly than the Hornady dies.
• Lee dies - they are inexpensive and work really fine. But I despise their seating dies because they feel plastic-y

I now have two loads for my 6.5CM that I really happy with. Now, I have a new 6.5 PRC to develop a load for. I am hoping it likes Barnes LRX bullets better than my CM does.

Just my take.