6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

[Formidilosus]

Don’t forget the Berger 130 grain OTM Hybrids. They are sweet.

Yes, but they need a minimum of 2,050fps impact to reliably upset. If your shots/setup keeps that bullet above that speed at your maximum killing range- one of the best performing bullets made.

 

[gerry35]

What can be expected from a 139 gr Scenar from a 260 Rem at normal ranges? Have a box of those here at home to try.

 

[Formidilosus]

What can be expected from a 139 gr Scenar from a 260 Rem at normal ranges? Have a box of those here at home to try.

Scenars kill ok, but they generally have more variability, and penetrate deeper with a narrow wound than other bullets. They are not the same as the tipped match bullets or Bergers.

 

[BradArnett]

This was a 130 ar hybrid at ~2350 impact velocity. I've killed 6 or 8 whitetails, and my wife has shot 3 iirc, with this bullet in the 2350 to 2700fps range and all have been zero drama.

Exit side

 

[General RE LEE]

Yes, but they need a minimum of 2,050fps impact to reliably upset. If your shots/setup keeps that bullet above that speed at your maximum killing range- one of the best performing bullets made.

Where did you get 2050 FPS?

 

[General RE LEE]

Minimum velocity for 130 grain Berger OTM per Berger

“We use the SAAMI minimum velocity spec for adequate performance on game of 1800 FPS at the animal for all BERGER hunting bullets.



Take care,
Phil Hoham
Technical Support
Capstone Precision Group, LLC.”

 

[ResearchinStuff]

the 130 OTM is in the hybrid line, not the Berger Hunting line.

 

[mt100gr.]

Minimum velocity for 130 grain Berger OTM per Berger

“We use the SAAMI minimum velocity spec for adequate performance on game of 1800 FPS at the animal for all BERGER hunting bullets.



Take care,
Phil Hoham
Technical Support
Capstone Precision Group, LLC.”

I'm guessing that "h" word in the response from Berger has something to do with it vs the "M" designation for the bullet being discussed.

 

[General RE LEE]

I had a lengthy discussion over the phone a couple years ago with Berger about the 130 grain Berger OTM as a hunting bullet.

The gist was the 130 grain OTM is more frangible than the other Hybrids and would expand reliably down to 1800 FPS. He also said the 130 grain OTM is an excellent hunting bullet.

 

[SouthPaw]

I had a lengthy discussion over the phone a couple years ago with Berger about the 130 grain Berger OTM as a hunting bullet.

The gist was the 130 grain OTM is more frangible than the other Hybrids and would expand reliably down to 1800 FPS. He also said the 130 grain OTM is an excellent hunting bullet.

Have you or anyone you know killed stuff with the 130 OTM below 2050fps impact to support that "gist"?

There are several first hand accounts here and elsewhere that report the OTMs can be very good bullets for hunting but do not reliably perform below that 2000fps velocity on big game. The Hybrid Target line have thicker jackets than the hunting hybrids (elite/classic hunters).

 

[General RE LEE]

Have you or anyone you know killed stuff with the 130 OTM below 2050fps impact to support that "gist"?

There are several first hand accounts here and elsewhere that report the OTMs can be very good bullets for hunting but do not reliably perform below that 2000fps velocity on big game. The Hybrid Target line have thicker jackets than the hunting hybrids (elite/classic hunters).

Lots of people well documented online. Panhandle Precision is a good one.

Berger 130 AR Hybrid Load Data & Performance Evaluation

After two seasons of shooting the Berger 130 grain AR Hybrid bullet, I’ve compiled quite a bit of load data on it. This article will include specific load recipes, accuracy and velocity results, an…

panhandleprecision.com

 

[General RE LEE]

Have you or anyone you know killed stuff with the 130 OTM below 2050fps impact to support that "gist"?

There are several first hand accounts here and elsewhere that report the OTMs can be very good bullets for hunting but do not reliably perform below that 2000fps velocity on big game. The Hybrid Target line have thicker jackets than the hunting hybrids (elite/classic hunters).

@lancetkenyon on Long Range Hunting forum has lots of documented success with the 130 OTM at long ranges. He uses the 1800 FPS threshold.

Berger OTM Tactical .264 130 grain Hunting

Anyone hunt with this bullet for whitetail sized game? My Tikka T3x 6.5 Creedmoor likes them over 42 grains 4451.

www.longrangehunting.com

 

[robtattoo]

@Formidilosus &, well, anyone really.

I know it's a tougher bullet than the ELD-M/X or TMK, but i have hundreds & they shoot great.

Anyone have any first hand experience with the 130gr TGK Gamechanger? Preferably at sensible ranges (<500yds) I'm no long range hunter & I'd prefer to stay inside of 3 bills where i can. I'm going to be taking The Swede elk hunting this year & not having to buy another flavor of bullet would be great. But I'll switch to 140 ELD-Ms if consensus dictates.

 

[Formidilosus]

Where did you get 2050 FPS?

A few dozen animals between 2,200fps and 1,750fps, and hundreds of gel shots. At 1,850’ish FPS about 20% of 130gr Hybrid AR OTM’s will show any deformation at all. Some critical thinking will give some clues as well.
Berger hunting VLD’s already tend to tumble, not “expand” especially below 2,000fps. At 1,800fps there is a relatively high percentage of Berger H bullets that do not fragment at all. The OTM and Target Bergers have a thicker jacket and are “tougher”. You can not have a “tougher” bullet that has the same lower limit upset velocity. Target Bergers, including OTM’s have a much thicker jacket and need higher impact velocity to reliably fragment.

Panhandle precision from what I read had one shot below 2,000fps and he hit bone. The thread from LRO only had one shot on antelope at low velocities, and that poster said the exit “was brutal”- yes, mostly likely because the bullet tumbled.


Later I’ll get the pictures from a mule deer and elk both shot at 1,870’ish FPS impact. The elk took 6 hits IIRC with one upsetting at all on post mortem; the mule deer 5, with again one showing any signs of upset. Then an antelope at 2,070’ish fps that clearly shows the difference. All shot with a couple weeks of each other.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus &, well, anyone really.

I know it's a tougher bullet than the ELD-M/X or TMK, but i have hundreds & they shoot great.

Anyone have any first hand experience with the 130gr TGK Gamechanger? Preferably at sensible ranges (<500yds) I'm no long range hunter & I'd prefer to stay inside of 3 bills where i can. I'm going to be taking The Swede elk hunting this year & not having to buy another flavor of bullet would be great. But I'll switch to 140 ELD-Ms if consensus dictates.

It’s a relatively deep penetrating, narrow wound producing bullet- a “tough” bonded bullet. They kill, but wounds are more similar to a Barnes LRX than an ELD-M/X. Again, they kill fine but the animal will tend to stay on their feet a bit longer.

 

[robtattoo]

It’s a relatively deep penetrating, narrow wound producing bullet- a “tough” bonded bullet. They kill, but wounds are more similar to a Barnes LRX than an ELD-M/X. Again, they kill fine but the animal will tend to stay on their feet a bit longer.

Ah, hell with 'em then. I like what fast fragmenting bullets have done so far, for me & everyone else. Midway have 140 ELD-Ms in stock, I'll go order a few hundred. If they're half a good as the TMKs in my .223, I'll be over the moon!

Again, thanks for taking the time to point me in the right direction.

 

[Formidilosus]

Ah, hell with 'em then. I like what fast fragmenting bullets have done so far, for me & everyone else. Midway have 140 ELD-Ms in stock, I'll go order a few hundred. If they're half a good as the TMKs in my .223, I'll be over the moon!

Again, thanks for taking the time to point me in the right direction.

No problem. Though to be clear, at 300’ish yards and in, they do well generally. It’s lower velocity impacts that really brings out the “issue” with their design.

Let me know how it goes if you remember.

 

[robtattoo]

If i ever manage to kill a bull, I will! The bastard things have eluded me so far.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Ah, hell with 'em then. I like what fast fragmenting bullets have done so far, for me & everyone else. Midway have 140 ELD-Ms in stock, I'll go order a few hundred. If they're half a good as the TMKs in my .223, I'll be over the moon!

Again, thanks for taking the time to point me in the right direction.

blue collar has 500 count boxes of 140 eldms right now.

 

[robtattoo]

blue collar has 500 count boxes of 140 eldms right now.

Oooh! Thanks!