460 Rowland vs 10mm Woods Defense

[treillw]

Started out looking at the 10mm for a woods defense gun. Then came across the 460 Rowland. Seems like it's a pretty good cartridge. Anybody have experience with it? Is it as powerful as they say - on par with the 44 mag? What platform do you use for it? I'm thinking the Glock 21 or FNH FNX-45 would be a good choice.

 

[Clarktar]

Started out looking at the 10mm for a woods defense gun. Then came across the 460 Rowland. Seems like it's a pretty good cartridge. Anybody have experience with it? Is it as powerful as they say - on par with the 44 mag? What platform do you use for it? I'm thinking the Glock 21 or FNH FNX-45 would be a good choice.

I have a conversion barrel for a Springfield xDm if you go that route.

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[Skyewalker]

I have a g21 460 conversion for sale if you want to try it. It packs more punch than a 10mm for sure. I'm not around browns anymore, but always felt it would be adequate against one.


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[thinhorn_AK]

Seems like the 2 instant reaponses trying to sell their 460 conversions should about answer your question.

I’d get a g20 and be able to shoot the thing without a full on conversion. In my experience, the 460 Rowland conversions aren’t reliable and likely why people are already trying to sell theirs to you.

Answer this. If the 460 Rowland conversion was awesome, would the first 2 replies to this thread be people trying to offload theirs on you??? I don’t think so.

 

[jhm2023]

I have an FNX 45 tactical that's converted. I worked up a handload pushing a 200 gr. Lehigh defense xtreme penetrator 1,412 fps. Shoots great and the recoil is about the same as a standard 45 auto load. Mine has been very reliable and I know a few people that aslo carry them same setup. My G22 is more snappy on the recoil than the FNX with 460 loads in it if that matters to you at all. Don't worry about that reply ^^^, he likely speaks from speculation rather than experience on the 460.

 

[jhm2023]

A plus to the 460 is the ability to shoot cheap 45 ammo for practice, even cheaper if you make your own.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I have an FNX 45 tactical that's converted. I worked up a handload pushing a 200 gr. Lehigh defense xtreme penetrator 1,412 fps. Shoots great and the recoil is about the same as a standard 45 auto load. Mine has been very reliable and I know a few people that aslo carry them same setup. My G22 is more snappy on the recoil than the FNX with 460 loads in it if that matters to you at all. Don't worry about that reply ^^^, he likely speaks from speculation rather than experience on the 460.

I’m not speaking from speculation, i e know. Several people who had 460 conversions that were unreliable. I’m glad yours works but many do not. I’ve been in several shops as well that won’t deal with 460 conversions.

 

[jhm2023]

I've heard of some 1911s having issues but that was a while back. I think they have the bugs worked out with the new stuff and the FNX runs great with them.

 

[Clarktar]

I got mine in a trade years ago. Just never ended up buying a XDM. Nothing to do with not enjoying the conversion.

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[TauPhi111]

I went through this internal debate for a while before settling on a G20 10mm. The main reason I went with the G20 over a 460 conversion is the fact I was able to get a G20 for a great price, but it didn't kill me that I wasn't getting that little bit of extra power of the 460. Here are my reasons why:

1. The hottest commercial 10mm load does 1200 FPS (a little more with an extended barrel) with a 220 grain hard cast bullet for 728 fpe. The heaviest commercial 460 load does 1300 FPS with a 255 grain hardcast bullet for 957 fpe. I'm only using the energy terms to compare the rounds. An angry griz doesn't care how much energy your bullet has. What I'm trying to point out is the only difference in external ballistics between the rounds is 100 FPS and 35 grains of bullet. At close range I don't think that is going to matter much. Now, what does kill bears that want to kill you is penetration, breaking bones, and damaging key CNS structures. The 220 10mm bullet has a higher sectional density than the 255 grain 45 bullet, so it should penetrate better. There's a video out there of the underwood 220 10mm load penetrating 14 water jugs and keep on going. That video was what finally sold me.

2. a Glock weighs less than a 1911. This was a personal preference that if I was gonna get a 460 rowland, it was going to be on a 1911 platform.

3. a 10mm holds more rounds

4. 10mm ammo is more easily found in stores if you get to your hunt destination without your ammo

5. IMO the idea of using a high powered autopistol over a revolver for bear protection is the ability to accurately put more rounds on target. The 10mm recoils less than a 460 rowland, so it should be easier to shoot

6. the 460 requires a compensator. not only does it make breaking down the pistol for cleaning a chore, but if you ever did have to use it without hearing protection, your hearing is gonna hurt for a while after that

 

[timekiller13]

I have the conversion for my Kimber 1911. It had a terrible time cycling the 185 grain load. But the 230, 240 and 255 grain loads run through it without a problem. I think that 185 is just too light. I've never killed any game with it, but I would have no problem shooting a deer, hog or black bear with it out to 50 yds. I have never practiced beyond that range so I don't know how accurate I can be. I know at 50 yds I can hit 4" clays with every shot.

 

[Yellowknife]

I have both a Glock 20 (10mm) and a Glock 21 with a 6" Rowland barrel. Have also been around several XD conversions.

The .460's have ALL required fiddling to get reliable. The XD's in particular took a lot of mag and throat work to feed right. My Glock seems to work ok with BB ammo, but is iffy with Cor-Bon. And it will FTF if I stiff arm it.

The 10mm just flat works with anything I can stuff in the mag, including a variety of hardcast. It has had the most field time by far.

 

[10ga.]

I’ve got a Clark 460 conversion and also a glock G40, and G29. While I enjoy all of them, the G40 is what I strap on my side when I feel a need for reliable protection. I load hard cast 200gr. Bullets with a .320 meplat at 1300fps.

The glock has never failed to cycle anything I have fed it. With the rmr I have no problems ringing steel at 100yds with it.

 

[treillw]

I’ve got a Clark 460 conversion and also a glock G40, and G29. While I enjoy all of them, the G40 is what I strap on my side when I feel a need for reliable protection. I load hard cast 200gr. Bullets with a .320 meplat at 1300fps.

The glock has never failed to cycle anything I have fed it. With the rmr I have no problems ringing steel at 100yds with it.

What brand are the 200 gr hardcast with the wide meplat?

 

[thinhorn_AK]

What brand are the 200 gr hardcast with the wide meplat?

Don’t most hardcastn10mm bullets have a fairly wide meplat?

I like the underwood 200 and 220g, the jam bear load 200g is also pretty good.

 

[jmden]

What brand are the 200 gr hardcast with the wide meplat?

The hardcast from DoubleTap ( 401" (10mm) DT Hardcast 200gr. Hardcast Solid™ bullets 100 count and 401" (10mm) DT Hardcast 230gr. Hardcast Solid™ bullets 100 count ) were designed to function in a 10mm Auto. I've used the 200g DoubleTap and 200g Beartooth and both function well in my G40, running a KKM Match barrel and 22lb Wolff spring on a Jentra guide rod, but have heard of guys with certain barrels in autos having trouble with the Beartooths on occasion. I have had not trouble with them in a MP .40 or the G40. Currently getting nearly 1400 fps out of both the 200g XTP and the 200g DoubleTap from the G40 with no issues. There's no reason to look at a .460 Rowland with that kind of performance.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

The hardcast from DoubleTap ( 401" (10mm) DT Hardcast 200gr. Hardcast Solid™ bullets 100 count and 401" (10mm) DT Hardcast 230gr. Hardcast Solid™ bullets 100 count ) were designed to function in a 10mm Auto. I've used the 200g DoubleTap and 200g Beartooth and both function well in my G40, running a KKM Match barrel and 22lb Wolff spring on a Jentra guide rod, but have heard of guys with certain barrels in autos having trouble with the Beartooths on occasion. I have had not trouble with them in a MP .40 or the G40. Currently getting nearly 1400 fps out of both the 200g XTP and the 200g DoubleTap from the G40 with no issues. There's no reason to look at a .460 Rowland with that kind of performance.

I’m also using a KKM barrel in my g20 and that’s greatly improved my accuracy and feeding. I want to stock up on some buffalo bite 230g stuff.

 

[Clarktar]

The hardcast from DoubleTap ( 401" (10mm) DT Hardcast 200gr. Hardcast Solid bullets 100 count and 401" (10mm) DT Hardcast 230gr. Hardcast Solid bullets 100 count ) were designed to function in a 10mm Auto. I've used the 200g DoubleTap and 200g Beartooth and both function well in my G40, running a KKM Match barrel and 22lb Wolff spring on a Jentra guide rod, but have heard of guys with certain barrels in autos having trouble with the Beartooths on occasion. I have had not trouble with them in a MP .40 or the G40. Currently getting nearly 1400 fps out of both the 200g XTP and the 200g DoubleTap from the G40 with no issues. There's no reason to look at a .460 Rowland with that kind of performance.

Do you carry the G40 as a EDC? Or is it basically your side arm while out in the woods?

I haven't held a G40 or 20 yet. But am wanting a 10 mm for CC and side-arm while hunting.

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[thinhorn_AK]

Do you carry the G40 as a EDC? Or is it basically your side arm while out in the woods?

I haven't held a G40 or 20 yet. But am wanting a 10 mm for CC and side-arm while hunting.

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If you are going for cc, the 20 or 29 are
Much better than the 40. I cc the g20 (or a 10) depending on what I’m wearing, since I live in Alaska, I generally have a long sleeve on weather it’s a flannel or a hoody or something similar so the 20 is easy to hide. When im in the woods, a g20 goes in the gunfighters inc kenai holster.

A g40 is just longer, I don’t think it would be fun to try to CC although it is an awesome gun, I just don’t see it in a CC role.

 

[10ga.]

What brand are the 200 gr hardcast with the wide meplat?

I cast them out of a custom mold that I had made to my specs.