350 legend/ 223 / 6.5 Grendel - bolt action

[Fadetoblack188]

Reasons for 223 over 6.5 grendel

No difference in killing ability with proper bullet selection. (223 even has a slight edge in my opinion because of the velocity)
Cheaper and more available ammo
In a good bolt gun 5.56 ammo works just fine as well
Better ballistics
Pulls better double duty on varmints
Less recoil


The only reason to go 6.5 grendel over 223 is if you really think you need a heavier bullet. If you look through the 223 thread and decide you need more gun, a 6.5 grendel is not the step up you're probably looking for.

I am reading there is less room for error on shot placement especially when it comes to a youth hunter.

The right ammo. Is this store bought off the shelf or hand loads ?

 

[cal30_sniper]

Reasons for 223 over 6.5 grendel

No difference in killing ability with proper bullet selection. (223 even has a slight edge in my opinion because of the velocity)
Cheaper and more available ammo
In a good bolt gun 5.56 ammo works just fine as well
Better ballistics
Pulls better double duty on varmints
Less recoil


The only reason to go 6.5 grendel over 223 is if you really think you need a heavier bullet. If you look through the 223 thread and decide you need more gun, a 6.5 grendel is not the step up you're probably looking for.

It’s been a while since I ran the numbers, but I think the Grendel still equals or holds an edge ballistically at longer ranges out of equivalent barrel lengths compared to heavy for caliber .223 loads. The Grendel will launch the 120ELDM at least as fast as a 223 will sling an 80ELDM, and their ballistic coefficient is identical. As the barrels get shorter, the Grendel starts to really pull ahead (based on what I’ve seen messing with 12”-16” Grendels.

All of that to say, the .223 seems to be the clear winner in this use case with today’s better bullets. The Grendel made a lot more sense when it came out 20+ years ago but that gap has closed significantly since.

Both are overshadowed ballistically by the 6ARC in the same class of rifle.

Edit before I get shredded, I’m specifically referring to ARC/Grendel loaded to normal bolt gun pressures, not the anemic factory loads people feed the weakened bolt head in their ARs for a regular diet.

 

[cal30_sniper]

I am reading there is less room for error on shot placement especially when it comes to a youth hunter.

Post #5 in this thread links to an absolute mountain of data that contradicts this.

 

[Fadetoblack188]

Ok so it looks like a 77 tmk which is store bought not hand loaded will do what it needs to as well as my kids shooting the 223 at a whitetail. Maybe I’m back to choosing the 223 haha

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I am reading there is less room for error on shot placement especially when it comes to a youth hunter.

The right ammo. Is this store bought off the shelf or hand loads ?

What do you mean by “less room for error on shot placement?” I assume you think that a larger diameter bullet provides more “margin for error.” This is technically true. A .243 bullet provides approximately .019” more margin for error than a .224 bullet, assuming quality bullets.

Factory loaded 69, 73, or 77-grain .223/5.56 is absolutely lethal against deer (and other animals).

Bullets still need to hit and damage vitals to kill animals. The most important factor in that is accurate shot placement. Giving a kid a rifle they can shoot a lot and with which they become become proficient is the most important way to set him up for success. There’s no hunting cartridge that makes up for poor shot placement.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Ok so it looks like a 77 tmk which is store bought not hand loaded will do what it needs to as well as my kids shooting the 223 at a whitetail. Maybe I’m back to choosing the 223 haha

Yes, as much as I would like to sell someone my lovely, accurate, reasonably priced, little CZ, the only reason I would choose a 6.5mm Grendel over a .223 is if your jurisdiction doesn’t allow .224 caliber bullets for deer.

 

[Fadetoblack188]

Ok ok 223 it is. I’ll see if I can find a deal on one tomorrow

 

[cal30_sniper]

Ok ok 223 it is. I’ll see if I can find a deal on one tomorrow

https://www.eurooptic.com/tikka-t3x-lite-223-rem-16-1-8-bbl-synthetic-blued-rifle-jrtxe312sb

https://www.eurooptic.com/tikka-t3x-ranahan-223-rem-20-17-bbl-roughtech-tan-blued-3rd-ranch-rifle-jrtxwv31220

Take your pick, 16” unthreaded or 20” threaded.

 

[Fadetoblack188]

https://www.eurooptic.com/tikka-t3x-lite-223-rem-16-1-8-bbl-synthetic-blued-rifle-jrtxe312sb

https://www.eurooptic.com/tikka-t3x-ranahan-223-rem-20-17-bbl-roughtech-tan-blued-3rd-ranch-rifle-jrtxwv31220

Take your pick, 16” unthreaded or 20” threaded.

Was thinking this route

 

[Chris in TN]

My oldest started with a .350 Legend.

Great deer killer within closer ranges but no matter what you do it loses velocity like a rock. Kinda limits you to 200 yards or so. 225-250 tops.

I’d rather have 5.56. All day long. I bought the .350 thinking it would be fun to shoot suppressed with subs. That held my interest for about five minutes.

 

[CJ_BG]

It’s been a while since I ran the numbers, but I think the Grendel still equals or holds an edge ballistically at longer ranges out of equivalent barrel lengths compared to heavy for caliber .223 loads. The Grendel will launch the 120ELDM at least as fast as a 223 will sling an 80ELDM, and their ballistic coefficient is identical. As the barrels get shorter, the Grendel starts to really pull ahead (based on what I’ve seen messing with 12”-16” Grendels.

All of that to say, the .223 seems to be the clear winner in this use case with today’s better bullets. The Grendel made a lot more sense when it came out 20+ years ago but that gap has closed significantly since.

Both are overshadowed ballistically by the 6ARC in the same class of rifle.

Edit before I get shredded, I’m specifically referring to ARC/Grendel loaded to normal bolt gun pressures, not the anemic factory loads people feed the weakened bolt head in their ARs for a regular diet.

I'm specifically talking about ballistics to the terminal range of a 77 TMK. So ~400yds for my DA when started at 2700fps. Been a while since I was around a grendel but I'm thinking it was 9ish moa elevation at 400 for a 120 eld-m. 223 is 8.2 for me. Wind drift is close, I'd have to run exact numbers to figure out which had less.

 

[Boarmaster]

I am in Ohio at camp right now about to go out and shoot my 350 to check zero for the opener Monday.
Long trip here so I always check it. I have killed a few big deer here with my 350 out to 170-180 yards. Does as well. But if I was not hunting in a straight-wall state I would go 223.

 

[Fadetoblack188]

Yeah I placed the order for the 223. Now onto an optic

 

[Livetohuntandfish]

Go with the Grendel. Built one for my wife. Bolt action. I did a Howa barreled action on a stocky carbon stock. Great little round with little recoil and ability to use a mini chassis.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Yeah I placed the order for the 223. Now onto an optic

Swfa

 

[FredH]

Why do you feel the 223 is better ? I am diving deep into this and it seems the 350 has the edge over the 223 for white tail

If you are going to hunt open country and have no need for blood trails then the 223 is OK. Not fantastic but OK. OK that is if your bullets are placed pretty much perfectly. The 350 does kick just a bit more but it will give plenty of penetration and there are lots of good factory loads out there. The 223 has a few reasonably good factory loads but usually you won't find them on the shelf at Academy.

 

[FredH]

Maybe it would be easier if you told me the ways you think a 350 legend is better for whitetail.

77TMK from 223 is the easy button.

I haven’t seen a 350legend thread with 100s of kills.

Little recoil.

Endless possibilities for rifles. Accessories.

Cheap practice ammo.

The list goes on.

Well no thread because there is no question the 350 legend has what it takes to kill deer and no one feels the need to champion it using two different bullets because they all work pretty good out of a 350 which oddly was designed for hunting deer. There is cheap practice ammo available for the 350 L also.

 

[omicron1792]

Well no thread because there is no question the 350 legend has what it takes to kill deer and no one feels the need to champion it using two different bullets because they all work pretty good out of a 350 which oddly was designed for hunting deer. There is cheap practice ammo available for the 350 L also.

Ok

 

[Mikido]

Why do people keep saying “placed perfectly”. If it’s not a heart and/or double lung shot, the animal won’t die quickly, regardless of caliber. Am I wrong? Or you’re saying non immediate, but still lethal (single lung, liver) you can track better bc of larger caliber?

 

[FredH]

Why do people keep saying “placed perfectly”. If it’s not a heart and/or double lung shot, the animal won’t die quickly, regardless of caliber. Am I wrong? Or you’re saying non immediate, but still lethal (single lung, liver) you can track better bc of larger caliber?

Placed perfectly as in almost perfectly broadside and don't expect an exit hole generally. Yes with bigger bullets easier to track because you will more likely get a blood trail and if you don't get a center lungs hit you have penetration enough to break big bones on the far side while going through any organs in it's way. Hard quartering shots are doable, shots I won't take with either my 22 ARC or my 223 running Eldm's. Which by the way my 22 ARC is going out this afternoon and will most likely take a deer. Would I expect a young kid to have the self control to take only the shots the 22 ARC is good at? No.