300wby Accuracy issues

[Kren]

Hey Guys,
I bought a 300wby in a Vanguard a few years back, and I feel that I am struggling to get it to shoot. I am curious if you all think I am expecting to much, or if you guys would ditch the gun. I have lurked around on some older threads here and see many that say they have a 300wby and claim its a "shooter" but most posts don't put a number to it. People all being different a "shooter" to you may be a lousy piece of junk to me. I have many friends that hunt with guns that are "good enough" at 200 yds, and that is NOT me. Guns are either accurate or they are not!

I have probably put roughly to 100-125 rounds down the pipe, and i'd guess that has probably been about 25-30 different load combinations. Each load combination has been 3 rounds, out of all those I have gotten this rifle to shoot a 3 shot group under an inch @ 100 exactly 1 time! I have shot quite a few groups in the 1.1-1.4" groups (measured with a caliper, not a guess). The best load was with a 200g ELDX and i have shot the same recipe 3x, groups were .75, 1.15 and ...1.43. Every group has been shot from a solid bench on days with little wind to give the gun as much of a chance as possible. I have tried AB, ABLR, ELDX (2 wieghts) Berger Hunter (2 weights) TTSX & Scirroco, have also tried about that many powders as well, different seating depths, etc.

Lately it seems i'm always in that 1.1-1.4" groups. So am i asking too much for this rifle to shoot sub 1" consistently? (FYI it;s the only one i own that i can't get there) Being i am this close would you keep working on it or ditch it? Every time I think I am about there, I go shoot a second group and it's usually worse. Frustrating.

Obviously, this caliber is capable of shooting/killing a long way out which is the intent, just curious if you guys have any thoughts or what you'd do. Also curious for the guys that have a 300wby that say it's a shooter, what does that mean? Sub MOA? Also curious of the guys that have Vanguards in any caliber if they are generally an accurate gun? (Accurate meaning sub MOA)

 

[Choupique]

am i asking too much for this rifle to shoot sub 1" consistently?

I think you need to ask yourself if it's worth the effort to get there. A true 1 MOA rifle off the shelf is a rare bird. Some makes seem to have a better batting average than others, but in general most peoples "half MOA all day" rifles are really 2+ MOA rifles. I've found out that a 1.5 MOA rifle is perfectly fine for my abilities and my life got better basically overnight when I quit worrying about it. I haven't killed any fewer animals because of it but I have saved a whole lot of reloading components.

That's a big hotrod kaboomer rifle. My initial thought is yes, you are expecting too much from it out the box. It seems every time I talk to someone who shoots a weatherby caliber, they talk about it being picky. My friends mark 5 300wby does good to get under 1.5" for 5 shots.

 

[Reburn]

all my factory weatherbys shot 1.5-1.7 moa 10 shot groups. One of them walked when it was hot.
I got rid of the vanguard 257 because it kicked bad enough to bruise me after 30 shots. I sold the mark V because I have others I like better.

If the gun will shoot 10 shots at or under 1.7 you are fine.

 

[Wapiti1]

So, it's a 1.5" rifle system. That's pretty much what you have proven. If you wish to improve that, load work up is not your issue. You have done that, and your results say it is a consistent 1.5" rifle.

You'll have to work on the mechanics of the system. Have you used a different scope? Has it been bedded (which stock is on it?)? Is the barrel free floated (if yes, it might need a pressure point)? etc.

Depends on if you want to fiddle with it or not. Likely you can get it to shoot about 1" consistently, under that will be a challenge without some machining work, IMO.

Jeremy

 

[Mcfish]

How's the trigger? I've tightened up the groups on more than one rifle with a little trigger massage.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

your group size variability is exactly as expected for 3 shot groups. I would not spend any more time tinkering. check out the "your groups are too small" podcast from hornady.

 

[wind gypsy]

Agree with what's been posted above.

Do any of your other rifles recoil as much as the 300 wby? That kind of recoil in a light rifle is going to be pretty hard to shoot tight even if you don't have shot anticipation/flinching issues with it. That much recoil exploits any inconsistencies in form. You shot a 3 shot group under 1" with it, thus it meets any "MOA guarantee" marketing gimmick that they may have.

Obviously, this caliber is capable of shooting/killing a long way out which is the intent, just curious if you guys have any thoughts or what you'd do.

I'd consider this - if that's the best it/you do under perfect conditions from a bench, what is it going to do from field conditions and situations? Is that a setup that really meets the intent of shooting/killing a long way out there? It doesn't take a heavy 30 cal moving at warp speed to kill well at distances 99.9% of us have any business shooting at critters and I'd argue most all of our hit rates would be better with significantly less.

 

[MT257]

Also I have found on a couple vanguards that the action screws come loose. Check to make sure they are properly torqued. This could affect accuracy. I had this happen on a 300 win mag in backcountry and on two standard vangaurds.

 

[Kren]

Sounds like maybe my expectations are a bit lofty. As a follow up to some of the questions though

* I have tried 2 different scopes to make sure that wasn't the issue & retorqued all screws int he rail, rings, etc
* I do have one other rifle that recoils harder than this one. That gun shoots considerably better.
* All of my other rifles will shoot sub moa, including a couple that shoot about 1/2 moa. These are all "rack rifles", however only 1 is a magnum other than this 300.
* I think the trigger is good imo, it's clean and breaks at about 3.25lb. Little heavier than i'd like, but useable.
* I did retorque action screws after only a few rounds, found they were WAY under torqued.

Thanks for all the advice, I have to admit it still frustrates me a bit. I realize you can kill thigs a long ways out without way less than any of the big 30's, but for some reason i can't understand, I seem to love to punish myself with recoil...

And i couldn;t agree more with the above statement of "most guy's sub moa is actually about a 2" group"! That made me laugh!

 

[Choupique]

All of my other rifles will shoot sub moa, including a couple that shoot about 1/2 moa. These are all "rack rifles"

You're going to run into a semantics issue on this board. A half MOA rifle around here means half MOA 30 shot groups, and as far as I know only very special rifles can achieve that kind of precision.

That said, if you feel like it shoots worse than your other rifles, it's probably just a less accurate rifle and no more complicated than that. I'd unload it and get something I was happy with. There's no room in my safe for rifles that have neither sentimental value nor satisfactory accuracy or utility to me.

If you really want to find out, shoot some 20+ shot groups and compare. That'll give you the real story.

 

[SDHNTR]

Try a cartridge that doesn't have 300 or Weatherby stamped on it.

 

[Kren]

I can't say that any of my rifles will shoot a 30 shot sub moa group! Maybe, but I've never even attempted, and i doubt i'm that good anyway!

Thanks again for the replies, appreciated!

 

[Touchdown88]

Try removing the forend pressure. I did this on my 300 Wby Vanguard and it cut the groups down.

 

[Pilsner]

your group size variability is exactly as expected for 3 shot groups. I would not spend any more time tinkering. check out the "your groups are too small" podcast from hornady.

This
This
And also this!

 

[Pilsner]

Sounds like maybe my expectations are a bit lofty. As a follow up to some of the questions though

* I have tried 2 different scopes to make sure that wasn't the issue & retorqued all screws int he rail, rings, etc
* I do have one other rifle that recoils harder than this one. That gun shoots considerably better.
* All of my other rifles will shoot sub moa, including a couple that shoot about 1/2 moa. These are all "rack rifles", however only 1 is a magnum other than this 300.
* I think the trigger is good imo, it's clean and breaks at about 3.25lb. Little heavier than i'd like, but useable.
* I did retorque action screws after only a few rounds, found they were WAY under torqued.

Thanks for all the advice, I have to admit it still frustrates me a bit. I realize you can kill thigs a long ways out without way less than any of the big 30's, but for some reason i can't understand, I seem to love to punish myself with recoil...

And i couldn;t agree more with the above statement of "most guy's sub moa is actually about a 2" group"! That made me laugh!

A 3 shot group is irrelevant for telling us the accuracy of your rifle.
Shoot a slow fire 10 (or better yet a 30) round group and get back to us.

 

[turbobrick]

What are you using for brass and how are you prepping it? How fast are you pushing the various projectiles? Does it show a preference for lighter or heavier projectiles? My buddy has a 35 year old Winchester Model 70 in 300wby that he loves and has killed a ton of game with, but its never really been a tack driver. He had shoulder surgery and was hoping he could buy some reduced recoil loads so he could still shoot it comfortably.

He became interested in suppressing the gun too, so me and another friend got together and did some work on the gun. The other friend is a gunsmith, he installed a Timney trigger, beaded the action, and threaded/made a collar so we could screw on a can. I replaced the broken scope rings and put on a new scope since the original one had been beat pretty hard. He had a couple verities of off brand ammo, and before all this work, it was about a 3moa gun. With the scope and mounts working right, it was still a 2" gun with the off brand ammo.

He didn't really have enough brass of one type to do a good workup, so I got some new Norma brass and got to work. I was blown away how much the shoulder moved forward on this rife, and the colossal jump to the lands was an education. That's just how the WBY chambers are, and its pretty different to what most people are used to. I tried weights up and down and found the gun liked lighter projectiles. I was only bumping the shoulder back a little, and not loading to the top of the cartridge's capability, that last 5% of velocity really adds a ton of recoil.

I found a great reduced recoil load that was like a mid to high range 300wm, and was about 1.5moa, its more of a target/fun round. A hunting load was a little tougher, but plenty hot and right at 1.5moa too. I think the nature of the WBY cartridges sacrifices some accuracy for velocity. The big shoulder move and huge jump to the lands aren't the best for tack driving accuracy. If you load it like its intended, the velocity is awesome, and the accuracy just fine.