300 Norma vs 300 Ultramag

[pawater]

I have a 300 Norma in the works. Lone Peak Fuzion Ti, 26" proof 1/9, EH5, Bix N Andy
I was looking at running the 215's to 3100
He also has a 300 Norma improved reamer coming, I am kicking around going improved.

Currently running a 300 RUM / 230's at 3020 with a 28" Bartlein and H1000 or 3120 with N570

 

[bradb]

I am going straight 300 norma.....should have had already

Lone peak, eh1, heavy Barlien and a Hells canyon carbon in same profile.

Hopefully soon. Don't ask why 300 norma, why not I have LOTS of hair brain ideas bouncing around in the hollow space between my ears

 

[Totoro]

Crap brad, isnt those hair brain ideas get us to where we are at now? LOL!

If not, I for one, would be shooting some plane Jane off the shelf factory rifle from Waly-World with factory ammo with brand gear XXX.

UUUUMMMM, HELL NO!!

 

[DEW0341]

http://www.accuracy1stdg.com/content/docs/binder7.pdf

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2018/06/06/300-norma-mag-custom-elr-rifle/

Some .300 NM love in these articles


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[Tumbleweed]

Gone as far as 5-7 load on my Remmy stuff. When I got into the RUM game, Remington was all there was, and I stuck with it. Found a bag of 50 new the other day in my man room that I've had a long time. Paid 38 bucks for it. Damn hard on barrels starting over. mtmuley

I've always used R/P in my Rum, it seemed to be a little tougher in the case head than the others were. I neck turn and clean up flash holes. I run my loads at the top end. I get 12-16 firings from it if I repair primer pockets as required and anneal necks every three firings. I'd be interested to see how much tougher this ADG stuff is. Heard about consistency issues with Bertram.

Jesse

 

[lapuafan]

Ok guys which is it. One says norma will out perform the rum, others say rum out performs the norma. Randy Selby says the rum will out perform the norma. I have the elr in rum, and custom rem 700 in rum. Was fixing bite bullet on norma but guess I'll find something else. Thanks for input.

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[Broz]

Rum will out perform the Norma a bit. If performance is the end goal the Norma is not the answer.

 

[lapuafan]

Rum will out perform the Norma a bit. If performance is the end goal the Norma is not the answer.

Thanks Broz you always lead me right direction

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[khuber84]

300nm Imp will push 230s @ 3100, 215s above 3200 all under 3.7". Do it!

 

[Quicksilver]

Rum will out perform the Norma a bit. If performance is the end goal the Norma is not the answer.

This is why you improve it and never look back! In all other forms the RUM is hard to beat though. 30-28 nosler comes close and is inherently accurate and tight on velocity spreads.

 

[Broz]

This is why you improve it and never look back! In all other forms the RUM is hard to beat though. 30-28 nosler comes close and is inherently accurate and tight on velocity spreads.

Or, you improve a 30 Lapua and then go ahead and look back at the 300 Nancy improved thats a fair bit behind.

 

[khuber84]

Or, you improve a 30 Lapua and then go ahead and look back at the 300 Nancy improved thats a fair bit behind.

I'd prefer not to have a single shot rifle. Lapua and rum all fail here vs the norma imp. If you mag load the rum/lapua you're hamstringing them. I understand understand some people's philosophy, if you run Rigby bolt face, get the absolute most out it by going lapua or lap improved, but you'll be single feed or seeting the ogive right off the neck. The norma imp fits its bill well, no case growth, very accurate, good load density with the slowest powders, and it runs very well. If I had a dedicated single shot rig sure run the rum or lapua.

 

[Broz]

I'd prefer not to have a single shot rifle. Lapua and rum all fail here vs the norma imp. If you mag load the rum/lapua you're hamstringing them. I understand understand some people's philosophy, if you run Rigby bolt face, get the absolute most out it by going lapua or lap improved, but you'll be single feed or seeting the ogive right off the neck. The norma imp fits its bill well, no case growth, very accurate, good load density with the slowest powders, and it runs very well. If I had a dedicated single shot rig sure run the rum or lapua.

I hear you, but I just picked up my 300 Terminator (Lapua AI) from Defensive Edge I had built. Has a 4" mag box and will feed loaded to the lands with very little bearing surface below the neck. Even with the 250 Hornady A Tips it sends at just over 3200 fps. I also reviewed a 300 RUM from MOA rifles that fed perfectly from their mag box with 230 Bergers loaded to the lands and same deal with bearing surface location. So if you want a repeater it seems it for sure can be done.

 

[wind gypsy]

Broz,

Any thoughts on the A tips to date? Do the BCs seem accurate?

 

[Ryan Avery]

This is why you improve it and never look back! In all other forms the RUM is hard to beat though. 30-28 nosler comes close and is inherently accurate and tight on velocity spreads.

If you’re going to waste time fire-forming. Get a 30 Lapua IMP.


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[Broz]

Broz,

Any thoughts on the A tips to date? Do the BCs seem accurate?

Our editor Luke Conner tested BC to 2000 yards and the drops were good using advertised BC. Then he took some deer with 230's out of a Nancy and all looked good. Landon Michaels from GWerks took an antelope with a 130 from a 6.5 and had a nice exit. I can run the 230's at 3300 plus from the Terminator, I am afraid I may have to lay a few elk down and see some close up results myself.

 

[Quicksilver]

I hear you, but I just picked up my 300 Terminator (Lapua AI) from Defensive Edge I had built. Has a 4" mag box and will feed loaded to the lands with very little bearing surface below the neck. Even with the 250 Hornady A Tips it sends at just over 3200 fps. I also reviewed a 300 RUM from MOA rifles that fed perfectly from their mag box with 230 Bergers loaded to the lands and same deal with bearing surface location. So if you want a repeater it seems it for sure can be done.

I agree, if you can get a 4" mag setup you open a lot of windows for the big and long calibers. I have a 338 lapua and 300 norma improved...but still desire to play with a 30-338 lapua improved. I like big magnums haha.

How is the mannerisms of the 30 lapua improved as far as load sensitivity, velocity consistency, ease of tuning, etc?

 

[Broz]

My newest 300 Terminator is to new to tell. Just getting it broken in. But all the improved Lapua's I have had in the past both 30 and 338, tuned the same as their non improved parent cases.

 

[TalusHunterCA]

Any 12+ month updates? I like the idea of a .300 Norma.

Also, curious if the .300 PRC has made any headway against the .300 Norma or if it too close to the .300 Win Mag to matter?

 

[Hiwayman92]

Case capacity is probably the most important factor to look at in comparing the big .30’s (to me.) I went with an Improved version of the Norma to avoid case stretch and donuts that some have encountered in the standard version. Mine runs 215’s into small groups at 3240 and 3130, so I opted for the lower charge for longevity. 91.5 grains of N570, 91.5 of IMR8133, or 87.5 grains of N565 will get it to 3150. It took 93 grains to run the higher node.

I have a friend who we have running a 300 RUM with 215’s on a factory length Mag box, and we can only get him to 3100 at Mag length. In the RUM you really need the 3.85-4” Mag box to take full advantage of the case capacity, where the shorter Norma you don’t. If you’re building a custom this is probably a moot point, because you can build it however you want.

The same friend has a Seekins Havak 300 PRC, but we haven’t had a lot of time to work with it yet. It’s running 225’s at 2915 into small groups with H1000 right now, but only has 30-40 rounds down the barrel. The Seekins guns come with a 4” Mag box which is nice, but the PRC is designed for optimal length, so there isn’t much rom to gain from SAAMI length before the bullet is out of the neck.

At the end of the day in my opinion, it depends if you’re building a custom or looking for a factory-ish rifle, if you plan to reload, and what your definition of “better” is, because there is no free lunch. More powder equals more recoil, and more throat erosion.


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