3 vs 4 Fletch - Wild Variance at 30 Yards w/ Fixed Blade Head

[TX_Diver]

Thought I had my VPA 3 blades pretty much tuned but when I put them on the 3 fletch it became evident that I wasn't even close...

I'm pretty much just experimenting at this point, but looking for ideas as I'm out of em now.

34" PSE EVL EC at about 67-68lbs
30.25" DL
29.25" Carbon to Carbon Easton Axis 300 Spine
50gr Brass HIT & 10gr IW collar
100gr VPA 3 Blade Solid
4" Wrap and Nockturnal at the Back
Max Stealth 3 or 4 fletch

I had a miserable time tuning this year and it was mainly because I got my IW flying well and didn't make further adjustments before my hunt. Now after the hunt I've been playing with the VPA 3 blades (4 fletch), Sevr 1.5s, & Rage Trypans (3 fletch). A few minor rest adjustments and I had all of them flying well and hitting with FP at 40.

Today I put the VPAs on a 3 fletch arrow and was nearly off the target at 40. I moved to 30 and they were still way off and not grouping. I put them back on the 4 fletch they were grouping and on top of my field points again at 40...

The pic below is what I'm getting at 30 yards. Any ideas why I'm getting such a wild difference between the 3 and 4 fletch? If it was a clearance issue I'd think it'd show up with the other heads I'm shooting too? The 3 fletch are typically left and usually high but they are pretty spread out so it's hard to tell. Without even getting a group I'm not sure where to move the rest or what to do...

 

[justin davis]

So you wondering why the broadheads are flying better with the 4 fletch? The 4 fletch adds more drag and more control for broadheads

 

[TX_Diver]

So you wondering why the broadheads are flying better with the 4 fletch? The 4 fletch adds more drag and more control for broadheads

I guess I’m wondering if I should expect that much difference… I can see eratic arrow flight with the 3 fletch. I figured maybe it’d be slightly harder to tune, but not that I’d barely be on the target at 40. People shoot these fine with 3 blazers so it seems like I should at least get some sort of group?

 

[justin davis]

Yea it shouldnt be. Wouldnt think be that far you wouldn’t think.

But never know. I’ve heard people having similar and 4 fletch fixing it. I’m wondering if your underspined

 

[TX_Diver]

Yea it shouldnt be. Wouldnt think be that far you wouldn’t think.

But never know. I’ve heard people having similar and 4 fletch fixing it. I’m wondering if your underspined

I can pull the collars off tomorrow and see if that helps. Can also back limbs out a turn. Won’t hurt to check!

 

[justin davis]

Yea might be worth checking. I shoot .300 spine with 160 grain total up front. But I have a 27” draw and a 26” arrow. Mine shoot great. But at your draw length and arrow length might need stiffer arrow

 

[Decker]

Try clocking your fletching to your 3 blade broadhead configuration.
The 4 fletch is adding more drag/steering but when in 3 fletch and not clock you may have two different forces countering each other.

Have you shot threw paper to see what your bare shafts are doing out the bow? It may give you a starting point.
I wouldn't care what your mech are shooting like, they will shoot like your field points.

You shouldn't be under spine especially with that set up. Not saying your not but shouldn't be.

I shoot a 260 spine at 31in draw at 76 lbs with 200 grains up front.

 

[Billy Goat]

Just to eliminate it, switch nocks between the 3 fletch and 4 fletch arrows.

I know we went back and forth some on nocks, but just double check it.

 

[streetdoctor]

Are you spinning the broadheads?

 

[5MilesBack]

If you're tuning well and they're flying great with your 4-fletch setup, why worry about it. That's all part of the tuning equation......having enough drag to overcome the fixed blade influences.

Are those two fletching combo's the same vanes (same length, same height)? They look different. I'd check for vane contact.

 

[TxxAgg]

I went through something similar this summer and discovered about 1/4 of my arrows just didn't fly well no matter what I did. They were inexpensive Scheel's brand. No biggie...everything is flying great now.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I would've expected 3 Max Stealths to steer a 3-blade VPA just fine, but you never know until you actually try it. If 4-fletch is working well, just go with it.

 

[OR Archer]

Have you actually tuned the bow through paper or bareshafts before going to broadheads? As much issue as you’ve had with broadheads would tell me your bow isn’t tuned. The difference in vanes would not create that much variance in a bow that has a good base tune on it. If I were you I would start from scratch and shoot through paper or bareshaft tune. Make adjustments by shimming your cams and not your rest like you have been. You’ll get way better results that’ll be consistent and not hit or miss like you’re experiencing.

 

[TX_Diver]

Have you actually tuned the bow through paper or bareshafts before going to broadheads? As much issue as you’ve had with broadheads would tell me your bow isn’t tuned. The difference in vanes would not create that much variance in a bow that has a good base tune on it. If I were you I would start from scratch and shoot through paper or bareshaft tune. Make adjustments by shimming your cams and not your rest like you have been. You’ll get way better results that’ll be consistent and not hit or miss like you’re experiencing.

I have, that's why I'm so frustrated! Back when nothing was flying well except FP and IW I was getting a bullet hole at 3 yds through paper. When I had everything flying well (noting that the VPA was 4 fletch) I was getting a very slight tail high tear at 3y and 10y fletched and bareshaft. I haven't shot a bareshaft at 20 vs fletched but can next time. Before all the adjustments bareshafts were hitting pretty well with FP at 20.

I am not an expert tuner but the past 4 years I've tuned my bows myself and never had this much trouble (previously shot magnus stingers, then IWs after that). I'm not a target archer, but I'm better than a 15" group at 40 yards!


Update from today: removing the collars made almost no difference. Nock tuning 1 arrow took me from the top of the target to the bottom (at 30 yards) but still no groups. I've got 3 arrows fletched with max hunters so I'll try those out of curiosity tomorrow. Switching the nocks between the 3 and 4 fletch arrows didn't make a difference either.

I am planning on tearing the bow completely apart in a few weeks to replace the limb pocket bushings. At that point I'll be starting completely over and maybe have better luck. I haven't put the bow in the vice recently and checked how level the arrow is. The only other idea I have is that last year I ran the arrow very high through the berger hole. This year I ran it closer to center per PSE recommendation.

 

[jimh406]

Could be something wrong with the shafts. Why are you wanting to switch to 4 fletch and are you sure the orientation of the nock and fletching are optimum for your rest? It could be 90 degrees off, for example.

 

[TX_Diver]

Could be something wrong with the shafts. Why are you wanting to switch to 4 fletch and are you sure the orientation of the nock and fletching are optimum for your rest? It could be 90 degrees off, for example.

Initially was wanting to switch so I can use the AZ EZ Fletch instead of a bitz. I know it's a bit silly but I'm shooting the recurve a lot more and was looking to simplify the compound process.

Now I'm not 100% I want to switch, but It'll drive me nuts knowing that I'm hiding a crappy tune with a 4 fletch so I want to figure it out so that it's not an open issue in the back of my mind forever!

 

[SDHNTR]

You have some other tuning issue going on. The three fletch is revealing it, while the four fletch is hiding it.

 

[5MilesBack]

The only other idea I have is that last year I ran the arrow very high through the berger hole. This year I ran it closer to center per PSE recommendation.

What rest are you shooting? If I put my arrow through the middle of the Berger holes with my PSE and QAD HDX rest, my taller vanes will hit the launcher on my rest. The bottom of the holes is only .5" above the shelf on my bow. Add in the height of the launcher even laying flat on the shelf and there's not much clearance for vanes. So my nocking point and arrows are more in line with PSE's tuning mark above the holes, with just enough clearance.

 

[TX_Diver]

You have some other tuning issue going on. The three fletch is revealing it, while the four fletch is hiding it.

That's what I think. Just trying to figure it out!

 

[TX_Diver]

What rest are you shooting? If I put my arrow through the middle of the Berger holes with my PSE and QAD HDX rest, my taller vanes will hit the launcher on my rest. The bottom of the holes is only .5" above the shelf on my bow. Add in the height of the launcher even laying flat on the shelf and there's not much clearance for vanes. So my nocking point and arrows are more in line with PSE's tuning mark above the holes, with just enough clearance.

Hamskea Hybrid Hunter w/ Microtune.