26-06 vs 25-06 Ackley vs 6.5-06

[Formidilosus]

The factory rifles are setup to handle factory loads from when the cartridge was developed. 22 calibers are in the same boat. I’d love a factory 22-250 that’d shoot high bc 70-80’s grain bullet instead of 50-55 grain…

Tikka makes factory T3 22-250 with 1-8” twist.

 

[Grundy53]

Bringing this old thread back from the dead. I'm taking 2 quarter bores into a smith tomorrow to get new faster twist barrels installed. One is currently a 25-06 the other is a .257 wby mag. I'm planning to AI the 25-06. Am I making a good decision or are there better options currently. My plan is to shoot the 134 ELDm's.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Bringing this old thread back from the dead. I'm taking 2 quarter bores into a smith tomorrow to get new faster twist barrels installed. One is currently a 25-06 the other is a .257 wby mag. I'm planning to AI the 25-06. Am I making a good decision or are there better options currently. My plan is to shoot the 134 ELDm's.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

I've been down this rabbit hole for around 2 years. If you are starting with a clean slate, I would not go with the -06 or -06AI. The reason being the old -06 case is much less efficient than both the 25 Creedmoor and the 25-284. In addition, depending on the action you're running, you may run into magazine/action length constraints that prevent you from seating the 130 class bullets long enough. For example, in the Tikka LA (what I own) you cannot seat the 134 ELDM to ideal length without experiencing jam in the action. So you're left seating the bullets deeper and reducing powder capacity.

The only real advantage to fast twist .25-06 or .25-06AI is being able to shoot factory ammo, and if you don't reload, this is a significant factor.

I decided on a 25-284 over the 25 Creed, because I want to shoot suppressed on a shorter barrel (22 vs 26) and still make 3000-3100 MV with 130 class bullets. In my Tikka LA, the 284 case will also let me seat the bullets far enough out to optimize powder capacity.

To get this velocity out of a standard 25-06, 06AI, or 25 Creed, with the 130 class bullets you will need to run 25-26" barrel. I attached the Berger load data for their 135 in the -06AI and 25 Creed, and according to their engineer its interchangeable with the 133. Please note the considerably lower powder charges for similar velocity in the 25 Creed vs. the -06.

Good luck!

 

[RockAndSage]

Bringing this old thread back from the dead. I'm taking 2 quarter bores into a smith tomorrow to get new faster twist barrels installed. One is currently a 25-06 the other is a .257 wby mag. I'm planning to AI the 25-06. Am I making a good decision or are there better options currently. My plan is to shoot the 134 ELDm's.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

Those sound like a couple of exciting and interesting projects, I'd genuinely enjoy hearing about your experiences with both of them as you go. The point about magazine length possibly being a problem for some guns is worth considering, but other than that, I don't see how you could go wrong with fast-twisting a 25-06 AI and a .257 Weatherby, if you're wanting to shoot heavier bullets.

I love geeking out on cartridges as much as the next guy, but the black-and-white, all-or-nothing thinking on them really does need to stop. For example, I'd love to see what a 7PRC necked down to .25 could do, and was actually just looking at comparative case capacities yesterday between it, .257 Weatherby, and .25-06AI - but the bottom line is they'd all three kill stuff flat dead. All three have some seriously cool and unique factors in their favor. And all three are/would be utterly killer cartridges that are different from each other. But if I started a post on comparing the three, you'd immediately get some inane OCD fanboy try to fully invalidate the older cartridges by pointing out "efficiency" of a PRC case, while someone else could easily try to invalidate the PRC or Weatherby with that same mentality by talking about their fat casings costing you magazine capacity.

This inane mentality of trying to invalidate a given cartridge really needs to stop - the more useful approach is to ask about limitations, use-case, and where a given cartridge might be more optimal than another for someone. Each person may have a different "optimal" that matters more to them. But as far as your two project guns go, there's not much you can't do with either cartridge, and seeing what they do with a faster twist would be very cool to hear about.

 

[Grundy53]

Good stuff. As far as the mag length situation. The 25-06 is a Remington 700 and the .257 is a Vanguard/Howa 1500.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Good stuff. As far as the mag length situation. The 25-06 is a Remington 700 and the .257 is a Vanguard/Howa 1500.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

I don't have direct experience with the 700 action, but I've heard it and the Savage do not have the same constraints as the Tikka LA.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

But if I started a post on comparing the three, you'd immediately get some inane OCD fanboy try to fully invalidate the older cartridges by pointing out "efficiency" of a PRC case, while someone else could easily try to invalidate the PRC or Weatherby with that same mentality by talking about their fat casings costing you magazine capacity.

Assuming you're reacting to my post, the guy asked if there are "better" options. Given I've been researching how to improve my 25-06 for a couple years I thought I'd share what I feel are "better" options to answer his question.

25 Creed-

• Less powder (30-40%), less recoil, and better barrel life, with similar velocity, than a 25-06 or 25-06AI in a 25-26" barrel
• Able to seat the 130 class bullets to optimize case capacity in a short action

25-284-

• Ability to use same bullets as 25-06 or 25-06AI with similar velocity in a shorter (20-22") barrel
• No need to have a magnum bolt face
• Able to seat the 130 class bullets to optimize case capacity in a long action (Tikka)

25 PRC (25-6.5 PRC), 25 SAUM, 25 SST, etc...

• These have all been done, and offer various advantages/disadvantages depending on the shooter. In general though, all provide greater case capacity and efficiency than the original .25-06. Essentially, they're wildcatting the original wildcat.

 

[Grundy53]

Assuming you're reacting to my post, the guy asked if there are "better" options. Given I've been researching how to improve my 25-06 for a couple years I thought I'd share what I feel are "better" options to answer his question.

25 Creed-

• Less powder (30-40%), less recoil, and better barrel life, with similar velocity, than a 25-06 or 25-06AI in a 25-26" barrel
• Able to seat the 130 class bullets to optimize case capacity in a short action

25-284-

• Ability to use same bullets as 25-06 or 25-06AI with similar velocity in a shorter (20-22") barrel
• No need to have a magnum bolt face
• Able to seat the 130 class bullets to optimize case capacity in a long action (Tikka)

25 PRC (25-6.5 PRC), 25 SAUM, 25 SST, etc...

• These have all been done, and offer various advantages/disadvantages depending on the shooter. In general though, all provide greater case capacity and efficiency than the original .25-06. Essentially, they're wildcatting the original wildcat.

Can you do a 25 creed in a long action? Pardon my ignorance.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Can you do a 25 creed in a long action? Pardon my ignorance.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

In a Tikka you can by swapping the long action bolt stop to a short action stop. I haven't tried it, but you could probably get by with the long action mag, but getting a short action mag may provide better feeding.

For Rem 700 I don't know if you have the same flexibility.

 

[RockAndSage]

Assuming you're reacting to my post, the guy asked if there are "better" options. Given I've been researching how to improve my 25-06 for a couple years I thought I'd share what I feel are "better" options to answer his question.

25 Creed-

• Less powder (30-40%), less recoil, and better barrel life, with similar velocity, than a 25-06 or 25-06AI in a 25-26" barrel
• Able to seat the 130 class bullets to optimize case capacity in a short action

25-284-

• Ability to use same bullets as 25-06 or 25-06AI with similar velocity in a shorter (20-22") barrel
• No need to have a magnum bolt face
• Able to seat the 130 class bullets to optimize case capacity in a long action (Tikka)

25 PRC (25-6.5 PRC), 25 SAUM, 25 SST, etc...

• These have all been done, and offer various advantages/disadvantages depending on the shooter. In general though, all provide greater case capacity and efficiency than the original .25-06. Essentially, they're wildcatting the original wildcat.

Hey, no, I wasn't responding to your post at all. My apologies if it may have seemed that way. I actually clicked like on your post - you gave some interesting information, and it didn't come across as one of those myopic, tribalistic fanboy shrieks at all. The way you shared info in this last post would be an exemplary template for anyone wanting to have a genuinely interesting and civil conversation on cartridges. I hadn't actually ever even heard of a 25-284, so it was cool to learn about. Sounds like a pretty bad-ass cartridge.

 

[goathunter]

@jjohnsonElknewbie I love the .25 bore too, and would love to build a 25-284. How did it turn out, do you have a build thread?

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

@jjohnsonElknewbie I love the .25 bore too, and would love to build a 25-284. How did it turn out, do you have a build thread?

I'm just getting started. I've gone back and forth between Preferred Barrels doing everything or having ACE and UM do it. Unfortunately, the ACE 25 cal barrels are a little behind and aren't going to be available until June(ish).

Instead, I spec'd out a 25 cal McGowen with Taylor from UM, and will be having McGowen ship it to UM for threading and chambering. UM will also be installing and dialing the barrel on my Tikka action.

• Lead time on the barrel from McGowen is 8 weeks +/-
• Estimated lead time on reamer is 3-4 months
• UM estimates 5 weeks to finish once they have everything

I'm going with a matte stainless, 22", 1:7.5 twist, #3 McGowen contour with 5/8-24 threads. The barrel will weigh around 3.25 pounds.

For brass, I ordered 100 pieces of 6.5-284 Lapua brass from Gunwerks. They're running a 20% off deal for $1.12/piece. I got a set of Redding 25-284 dies and will begin sizing/necking down soon. It's supposed to be a simple one-pass effort.

Hey, no, I wasn't responding to your post at all. My apologies if it may have seemed that way. I actually clicked like on your post - you gave some interesting information, and it didn't come across as one of those myopic, tribalistic fanboy shrieks at all. The way you shared info in this last post would be an exemplary template for anyone wanting to have a genuinely interesting and civil conversation on cartridges. I hadn't actually ever even heard of a 25-284, so it was cool to learn about. Sounds like a pretty bad-ass cartridge.

Right on man, thanks.

 

[ztc92]

The factory rifles are setup to handle factory loads from when the cartridge was developed. 22 calibers are in the same boat. I’d love a factory 22-250 that’d shoot high bc 70-80’s grain bullet instead of 50-55 grain…

That’s what keep the gunsmiths busy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just an FYI, Tikka makes a 1:8 twist 22-250. Lots of guys use them as a start to building a 22CM.

 

[Grundy53]

Since I have you guys here. What contour of barrel should I look at? Both rifles have Stocky's carbon fiber stocks. Both will be used for hunting, involving quite a bit of hiking/walking. Both will be shot suppressed, so they will be threaded and have weight at the end. Thanks for the help.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[goathunter]

I'm just getting started. I've gone back and forth between Preferred Barrels doing everything or having ACE and UM do it. Unfortunately, the ACE 25 cal barrels are a little behind and aren't going to be available until June(ish).

Instead, I spec'd out a 25 cal McGowen with Taylor from UM, and will be having McGowen ship it to UM for threading and chambering. UM will also be installing and dialing the barrel on my Tikka action.

• Lead time on the barrel from McGowen is 8 weeks +/-
• Estimated lead time on reamer is 3-4 months
• UM estimates 5 weeks to finish once they have everything

I'm going with a matte stainless, 22", 1:7.5 twist, #3 McGowen contour with 5/8-24 threads. The barrel will weigh around 3.25 pounds.

For brass, I ordered 100 pieces of 6.5-284 Lapua brass from Gunwerks. They're running a 20% off deal for $1.12/piece. I got a set of Redding 25-284 dies and will begin sizing/necking down soon. It's supposed to be a simple one-pass effort.

Right on man, thanks.

Sounds like a great project. Keep us posted

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Since I have you guys here. What contour of barrel should I look at? Both rifles have Stocky's carbon fiber stocks. Both will be used for hunting, involving quite a bit of hiking/walking. Both will be shot suppressed, so they will be threaded and have weight at the end. Thanks for the help.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

For 5/8-24 threads you’re likely looking at a sporter 2 or 3 depending on barrel contour and length (more meat towards the action). For most sporter 1 or “lite” contours, you’ll need to go 1/2-28 or have a shoulder added to the muzzle to accommodate 5/8-24.

Preferred offers a “hybrid lite” that’s designed for 5/8-24 while staying as light as possible.