25 cal 134 Eld-M vs 133 Berger EH

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

This is totally doable, in lapua brass I never found pressure with 131s and rl26 till around 3100mv from a 25in barrel

Rl26 will add 150+fps over H4350.

Agree, and I believe @willfrye027 gets 2900+ without pushing pressure with the 134 ELDM in a 26" CM.

 

[willfrye027]

Agree, and I believe @willfrye027 gets 2900+ without pushing pressure with the 134 ELDM in a 26" CM.

Previous barrel was 26”, n555 pushing the 135s 2930fps with lapua brass. Some pieces are up to 10 firings without a lost primer pocket.

Current barrel with 134s is 26” with h4350 doing 2850ish in alpha brass. Can be pushed a little faster than that but was getting an occasional heavy bolt with long strings in hot weather so I toned it down a little.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Previous barrel was 26”, n555 pushing the 135s 2930fps with lapua brass. Some pieces are up to 10 firings without a lost primer pocket.

Current barrel with 134s is 26” with h4350 doing 2850ish in alpha brass. Can be pushed a little faster than that but was getting an occasional heavy bolt with long strings in hot weather so I toned it down a little.

Thank you and if a guy has some unobtainium RL-26, 3,000 is likely pretty reasonable in a 26".

 

[willfrye027]

Thank you and if a guy has some unobtainium RL-26, 3,000 is likely pretty reasonable in a 26".

You can probably do it with normal powders and be over pressure. The 131s IIRC have a shorter bearing surface and can be pushed a little faster than the 135/134s

 

[khuber84]

I have a tikka w/ a 24in brux 25cm, lapua brass, 134eldm, H4350, anything over 2850 is pretty damn spicy. Tikkas don't handle psi as well as other actions, and in my opinion, brux barrels are tight, at least the 3 I've had would get into psi fair bit sooner than expected.

Not all barrels are the same!

 

[tlsmith22]

How long is your barrel?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s a 25” barrel

 

[eoperator]

This is totally doable, in lapua brass I never found pressure with 131s and rl26 till around 3100mv from a 25in barrel

Rl26 will add 150+fps over H4350.

I have been toying with the idea of ordering a 25 saw that is advertised to get 100fps over 25cm.

Would it be fair to expect 3000fps from a 20" 25 saw with r26 safely and reliably?
Alpha brass

 

[khuber84]

I have been toying with the idea of ordering a 25 saw that is advertised to get 100fps over 25cm.

Would it be fair to expect 3000fps from a 20" 25 saw with r26 safely and reliably?
Alpha brass

A 25prc struggles for 3000fps from that short a barrel. The saw will be really hot to do it.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I have been toying with the idea of ordering a 25 saw that is advertised to get 100fps over 25cm.

Would it be fair to expect 3000fps from a 20" 25 saw with r26 safely and reliably?
Alpha brass

You will not get 3,000mv in a 20" barrel with a 25 saw. I'm running 54.5gr of H1000 in Lapua brass in my 22" 25-284 (66-68gr capacity). That load and 134 ELDM is getting 2,828 MV.

The SAW case has 54.2gr of total capacity (not usable) and runs about 75fps faster than the 25cm according to this article from WTO.

https://westtexordnance.com/25-saw-the-ultimate-hunter-match-cartridge/

If you want 3,000 from a 20", you're going to need a serious magnum cartridge- 25 WSM, 25-7PRC, 257 WBY, 25 Nosler, etc...

25-6.5 PRC and 25 SAUM only have a slight capacity advantage over the 25-284, and will not get you there either.

 

[eoperator]

You will not get 3,000mv in a 20" barrel with a 25 saw. I'm running 54.5gr of H1000 in Lapua brass in my 22" 25-284 (66-68gr capacity). That load and 134 ELDM is getting 2,828 MV.

The SAW case has 54.2gr of total capacity (not usable) and runs about 75fps faster than the 25cm according to this article from WTO.

https://westtexordnance.com/25-saw-the-ultimate-hunter-match-cartridge/

If you want 3,000 from a 20", you're going to need a serious magnum cartridge- 25 WSM, 25-7PRC, 257 WBY, 25 Nosler, etc...

25-6.5 PRC and 25 SAUM only have a slight capacity advantage over the 25-284, and will not get you there either.

I have 18" & 20" 25/6.5prc's so im familiar with those velocities.

Berger lists 25cm 26" 135g r26 max @2944fps

 

[khuber84]

You will not get 3,000mv in a 20" barrel with a 25 saw. I'm running 54.5gr of H1000 in Lapua brass in my 22" 25-284 (66-68gr capacity). That load and 134 ELDM is getting 2,828 MV.

The SAW case has 54.2gr of total capacity (not usable) and runs about 75fps faster than the 25cm according to this article from WTO.

https://westtexordnance.com/25-saw-the-ultimate-hunter-match-cartridge/

If you want 3,000 from a 20", you're going to need a serious magnum cartridge- 25 WSM, 25-7PRC, 257 WBY, 25 Nosler, etc...

25-6.5 PRC and 25 SAUM only have a slight capacity advantage over the 25-284, and will not get you there either.

I agree with all

 

[khuber84]

You will not get 3,000mv in a 20" barrel with a 25 saw. I'm running 54.5gr of H1000 in Lapua brass in my 22" 25-284 (66-68gr capacity). That load and 134 ELDM is getting 2,828 MV.

The SAW case has 54.2gr of total capacity (not usable) and runs about 75fps faster than the 25cm according to this article from WTO.

https://westtexordnance.com/25-saw-the-ultimate-hunter-match-cartridge/

If you want 3,000 from a 20", you're going to need a serious magnum cartridge- 25 WSM, 25-7PRC, 257 WBY, 25 Nosler, etc...

25-6.5 PRC and 25 SAUM only have a slight capacity advantage over the 25-284, and will not get you there either.

Agree with 99% of this!

My 23in 25prc is running 59.4 H1000 with a 134 eldm at 3050mv. PSI was 60.2gr, 3120mv. Rl26 will give you another 75-100fps observant pressure.

I had a 26in 25saum when the 131 came out. I believe 59gr rl26 was going near 3300. So yeah I personally think the 73-74gr capacity saum has the ass to make 3k. I've shot a lot of saums and prcs, even tho the saum only has 5+- grain capacity advantage, it always seems to have a top side of + 60-80fps. Maybe it's just been my differences of barrels, but that's been my observations.

 

[SaltyAquaholic]

I got in on the 25 creedmoor bandwagon with its official release. 22in barrel and will be running suppressed. Shots to 4 or 500 depending on how comfortable I am when hunting season comes back around. The forests where I live are dense and the mountains can really open up so I’m trying to find a hunting bullet that would also be acceptable as close in as 30 to 50 yards without penciling or grenading as well as the longer shots. Between the Berger and the Eldm, which is better constructed to perform that close in? I know they’ll both do fine at range as long as the load is work up gives it the velocity needed.

 

[hereinaz]

I got in on the 25 creedmoor bandwagon with its official release. 22in barrel and will be running suppressed. Shots to 4 or 500 depending on how comfortable I am when hunting season comes back around. The forests where I live are dense and the mountains can really open up so I’m trying to find a hunting bullet that would also be acceptable as close in as 30 to 50 yards without penciling or grenading as well as the longer shots. Between the Berger and the Eldm, which is better constructed to perform that close in? I know they’ll both do fine at range as long as the load is work up gives it the velocity needed.

Berger are a “tougher” bullet than ELDm. It penetrates a couple inches more before coming apart. The neck of the wound channel is longer before the football shape wound channel.

 

[SaltyAquaholic]

Berger are a “tougher” bullet than ELDm. It penetrates a couple inches more before coming apart. The neck of the wound channel is longer before the football shape wound channel.

So you would say the tougher construction would make it a better choice on those close in shots? Also, and I know this has been mildly beat to death, but for the sake of the 25 caliber bullets specifically would you choose the elite hunter or the hybrid target Berger? I know there’s some disparity between performance in calibers. At least from what I’ve read it seemed.

 

[willfrye027]

So you would say the tougher construction would make it a better choice on those close in shots? Also, and I know this has been mildly beat to death, but for the sake of the 25 caliber bullets specifically would you choose the elite hunter or the hybrid target Berger? I know there’s some disparity between performance in calibers. At least from what I’ve read it seemed.

I would be more concerned with how the bullet will perform at longer range. You shoot something with either of these bullets at close range and they are going to die. Probably neither will exit, both will reach the vitals unless you’re going for a Texas heart shot. I have killed a lot of stuff with both the 134 and the Berger 135s. Close range is not an issue.

 

[SaltyAquaholic]

I would be more concerned with how the bullet will perform at longer range. You shoot something with either of these bullets at close range and they are going to die. Probably neither will exit, both will reach the vitals unless you’re going for a Texas heart shot. I have killed a lot of stuff with both the 134 and the Berger 135s. Close range is not an issue.

Gotcha, i guess I was worried about the wrong side of performance

 

[willfrye027]

Gotcha, i guess I was worried about the wrong side of performance

There’s enough mass/sectional density that even with a direct humerus/shoulder hit plenty of bullet will make it to the lungs and destroy them

 

[SaltyAquaholic]

There’s enough mass/sectional density that even with a direct humerus/shoulder hit plenty of bullet will make it to the lungs and destroy them

I guess I’m gonna have to do a deep dive into whether I should choose the 133EH or the 135HT Berger. Appreciate the info. I’ll probably give the 133’s a try first since they were intended for hunting.

 

[hereinaz]

@willfrye027 is right on with everything that matters. They will definitely come apart wrecking the animal at 2200 fps and higher.

I know Bergers cause that is what I have shot. At close range I have seen baseball sized exits and liquid lungs. At extended ranges like 500 yards, I still have seen gnarly exits if it is a high double lung.

Even at long ranges, I am comfortable shooting Berger down to 1800 minimum. Others confidently do the same with ELDm.

If you are just learning about terminal ballistics and long range, then the bullets should be the least of your worries.

Bullet performance is established by the incredible amount of actual demonstrable proof. It is only debated on opinion of “what is best” with some bogus beliefs tossed in.