25-7prc or 25 saum

[WKR]

I've recently really been enjoying the 25 cals. Built a 25 creed and its just awesome.

Now I plan on building a dedicated 25 cal hunting rifle that I can put a 16-18 inch barrel on and still get close to that 3000 fps mark with the high bc .257s.

I'm thinking that would probably have to be a 25-7prc as it has a touch more case capacity over the 7 saum i believe.

That means I'll need a long action. 25 saum would probably fit fine in a short action but the prc won't. Medium would work for either but im not sure how I feel about mediums. I think it limits rifle build components compared to a long or short.

Anyone have data or experience with either cartridge?

 

[T_Widdy]

My 25-7 runs great so far in a tikka. With a 18” my guess is you’re going to be around 3050 fps after it speeds up. With an improved Saum you will probably be close also. The saum coal will probably be around 3.020 and the prc is at 3.255 coal.

 

[B23]

Bigger case capacity generally wins the velocity race but same barrel length and run to equal pressure a 25-7PRC will likely only run slightly faster then a 25 SAUM. Probably around 30-50fps faster and it'll take 6-8gr more powder to do it.

A 25-7PRC with regard to case capacity would be a twin to the 257 Wby mag. That short of a barrel I think the 25 SAUM or maybe neck up some 6 UM brass to make a 25 UM would be a better option then a 25-7 PRC and both of the other two can be run in a SA using a 3.100 Baney box or maybe UM's new DBM setup which I think allows up to 3.150 OAL in a short action.

 

[WKR]

Bigger case capacity generally wins the velocity race but same barrel length and run to equal pressure a 25-7PRC will likely only run slightly faster then a 25 SAUM. Probably around 30-50fps faster and it'll take 6-8gr more powder to do it.

A 25-7PRC with regard to case capacity would be a twin to the 257 Wby mag. That short of a barrel I think the 25 SAUM or maybe neck up some 6 UM brass to make a 25 UM would be a better option then a 25-7 PRC and both of the other two can be run in a SA using a 3.100 Baney box or maybe UM's new DBM setup which I think allows up to 3.150 OAL in a short action.

I dont know man, thats alot of work fire forming get to a 25 saum improved. I think necking down a 7prc or 6.5 saum would be a much simpler process for the same or similar results. I just don't see the advantage of the improved saum being worth it.

 

[T_Widdy]

I dont know man, thats alot of work fire forming get to a 25 saum improved. I think necking down a 7prc or 6.5 saum would be a much simpler process for the same or similar results. I just don't see the advantage of the improved saum being worth it.

They all need fire formed if you want a consistent load. The only difference really is buying a custom die for the improved case vs a factory bushing die.

 

[WKR]

They all need fire formed if you want a consistent load. The only difference really is buying a custom die for the improved case vs a factory bushing die.

Thats true, but the improved case has more brass being moved around than the others. So potentially the pre fire form loads can still be used to collect data.

And yeah to your other point, I already have a 7 prc SAC modular die, so it would be really simple to just buy the 25 prc neck/shoulder bushing and be done. That and I have plenty 7 prc brass. There is $500 right there i could put towards build components instead of a new die and brass.

 

[T_Widdy]

Thats true, but the improved case has more brass being moved around than the others. So potentially the pre fire form loads can still be used to collect data.

And yeah to your other point, I already have a 7 prc SAC modular die, so it would be really simple to just buy the 25 prc neck/shoulder bushing and be done. That and I have plenty 7 prc brass. There is $500 right there i could put towards build components instead of a new die and brass

Heck yea build the prc. I’m loving mine.

 

[WKR]

Heck yea build the prc. I’m loving mine.

Did you mention how long your barrel is?
And I'm curious what loads you've developed?

 

[T_Widdy]

Mine is a tikka action, 22” hart barrel. My load right now is 133 Berger with rl26 at 3240. Tried some 565 but hit pressure and slower than the 26, waiting on some 570 now and am going to test the 134 eldm and 133eh with it. I’m trying to be conservative on this one, not sure how many rounds this barrel will last. Here is the target I’ve been doing my ladder test on

 

[B23]

I dont know man, thats alot of work fire forming get to a 25 saum improved. I think necking down a 7prc or 6.5 saum would be a much simpler process for the same or similar results. I just don't see the advantage of the improved saum being worth it.

I said that based on thinking UM was having some ADG brass being made that was already in their "improved" version otherwise I'd stick with a straight 25 SAUM and neck down ADG 6.5 SAUM brass which is what I'm doing with the 25 SAUM I'm having built.

I have a set of Redding 7mm SAUM Comp. dies I'm using for necking them down, using a . 284 bushing in one pass, but I still need to figure out what I'm going to do for a seating die. Sure would be nice if Redding could make the OD of their seating stems all the same size so I could just buy a different stem but I guess that's asking to much.

 

[B23]

Mine is a tikka action, 22” hart barrel. My load right now is 133 Berger with rl26 at 3240. Tried some 565 but hit pressure and slower than the 26, waiting on some 570 now and am going to test the 134 eldm and 133eh with it. I’m trying to be conservative on this one, not sure how many rounds this barrel will last. Here is the target I’ve been doing my ladder test on

What are you using for a seating die?

 

[T_Widdy]

7 prc redding micrometer die

 

[B23]

7 prc redding micrometer die

But doesn't the bullet tip bottom out causing it to wobble around in the seating stem?

 

[sportsmans challenge]

I've recently really been enjoying the 25 cals. Built a 25 creed and its just awesome.

Now I plan on building a dedicated 25 cal hunting rifle that I can put a 16-18 inch barrel on and still get close to that 3000 fps mark with the high bc .257s.

I'm thinking that would probably have to be a 25-7prc as it has a touch more case capacity over the 7 saum i believe.

That means I'll need a long action. 25 saum would probably fit fine in a short action but the prc won't. Medium would work for either but im not sure how I feel about mediums. I think it limits rifle build components compared to a long or short.

Anyone have data or experience with either cartridge?

Will be getting a 25 saum hopefully end of the week. This reamer has a long freedbore .345, will be running 6.5 adg brass necked down, 134 eld's, hoping the n570 does well with it. Will respond back after I get it.

 

[B23]

Will be getting a 25 saum hopefully end of the week. This reamer has a long freedbore .345, will be running 6.5 adg brass necked down, 134 eld's, hoping the n570 does well with it. Will respond back after I get it.

I'm really interested to see how N570 does in your 25 SAUM. That stuff is soooo freakin chunky with their big fat kernels it'll be interesting to see if you can get enough in the case to get the speed out of it. At the least a very longgggggg drop tube will be required.

As for a seating die I can get a Redding Comp seater in 6 BR pretty cheap and I'm thinking I could use that then have the sleave reamed with the chambering reamer. Anyone have any thoughts on that idea???

 

[T_Widdy]

But doesn't the bullet tip bottom out causing it to wobble around in the seating stem?

No the tip doesn’t make any contact in mine, not even the 134 eldm


In a Hornady micrometer seating die with their match bullet stem and 134 eldm the bullet tip hits the end on that one

 

[willfrye027]

Thats true, but the improved case has more brass being moved around than the others. So potentially the pre fire form loads can still be used to collect data.

And yeah to your other point, I already have a 7 prc SAC modular die, so it would be really simple to just buy the 25 prc neck/shoulder bushing and be done. That and I have plenty 7 prc brass. There is $500 right there i could put towards build components instead of a new die and brass.

I think that’s your answer right there. I believe WTO is/was messing around with the 25-7prc. 257 weatherby with a better case design and brass.

3000fps with these bullets is all you need. Personally I prefer the wound channel on the 134eld over the bergers.

 

[ACHILLES]

I'm really interested to see how N570 does in your 25 SAUM. That stuff is soooo freakin chunky with their big fat kernels it'll be interesting to see if you can get enough in the case to get the speed out of it. At the least a very longgggggg drop tube will be required.

As for a seating die I can get a Redding Comp seater in 6 BR pretty cheap and I'm thinking I could use that then have the sleave reamed with the chambering reamer. Anyone have any thoughts on that idea???

N570 runs great in my 25sst and it’s 2gr less h20 capacity than the SAUM. As for a seater die check out the Frankfort Arsenal universal bullet seating die for $80.

To the op a 25-7prc should do 3000 in an 18” easily. If you’re going that short though a 25prc,25sst,25saum will do the same with n570. But if you already have the SAC die I understand wanting to stick with 7prc case. Looking at WTO 25-7prc data with n570 it runs about 50-70fps faster using 9gr more powder than my 25sst.

I had my 25sst bbl set back and shorted from 26” to 18”. Once it speeds up I think Il be right at 3000 fps with n570 and the 131ACE.

 

[WKR]

I'll probably shoot the 145 blackhole out of the 25-7 prc. My 25 creed sure likes them.

 

[ACHILLES]

How fast are you running the 145s in your creed and what bbl length?