223 Trainer & Matching Fast 6mm

[TheM1DoesMyTalking]

Tikka T3x Lite Stainless Synthetic 223 Rem 20" Bbl 1:8 5/8in x 24 tpi Synthetic/Stainless JRTXB31220MT - 2 20"'s left, PM me if you want one ; ill hook ya up
the 16" stainless guns will probably happen, I just have to litigate it with my guy in purchasing

16" stainless 223 is what several of us are holding out for. I already have one I cut and thread but I'd prefer the next one for my younger kids come that way from the factory.

 

[RockAndSage]

For field use, a ton of difference. I had a 6 CM on an AnTi X. Switched to a Tikka. It’s orders of magnitude smoother, does not bind (the AnTi does) and is more reliable.

@Formidilosus , I've seen you say similar things about high-end actions vs Tikkas. With all the sacred cows you've slain, what kinds of up-tier or Gucci stuff really does seem to perform better, enough to make a difference? Only thing that comes to mind is binos/spotters. Seems to be hit or miss on a bunch of other categories, based on brand or even model...

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

@Formidilosus , I've seen you say similar things about high-end actions vs Tikkas. With all the sacred cows you've slain, what kinds of up-tier or Gucci stuff really does seem to perform better, enough to make a difference? Only thing that comes to mind is binos/spotters. Seems to be hit or miss on a bunch of other categories, based on brand or even model...

This would make a great stand alone thread.

 

[Steve300xcw]

I wouldnt get too hung up on the tmk's. You can find 75gr eld's everywhere and 2nds are easy enough to round up as well.

 

[TradLife406]

Is $769 for a .223 tikka a good deal? Blued barrel OK? (thought I saw somebody poo pooing them somewhere on Rokslide). What twist do I want for 77 and 88 grain TMKs?

Thanks!

What I paid for mine in November from Scheels.
Bought 1500 rounds of AAC 77 grain otm. Shoots 10 just over an inch. It's 5.56 but zero issues.

I will handload hunting rounds for it. Because I like to reload. But for bulk it's better to buy factory.

 

[Lawnboi]

If you have the time reloading 223 is dirt cheap.

 

[UnckleBob]

If you have the time reloading 223 is dirt cheap.

Especially if you are reloading premium bullets vs buy boxes of something like Federal Gold Medal Match.

 

[treillw]

16" stainless 223 is what several of us are holding out for. I already have one I cut and thread but I'd prefer the next one for my younger kids come that way from the factory.

Why 16" over 20"?

I kinda like the 20" barrel option to be on par with my desired hunting rifle.

 

[treillw]

If you have the time reloading 223 is dirt cheap.

If you've already done the math, how much per round abouts?

 

[Lawnboi]

If you've already done the math, how much per round abouts?

With 22 cal it’s highly dependent on the bullet.

Brass ends up essentially free, even if you buy Lapua and load it 10 times, you’re looking at 70cents a piece divided over ten firings. 7 cents.

Decent bullets can range from 20 cents a bullet to over 40.

Powder, good powder if you buy an 8lber hour looking at ~50 a pounds. One pound will get you around 300 rounds…. 16 cents a bang.

Primers are valid or for 5 cents a piece right now.

48 cents a round for premium brass/ powder and a cheaper bullet.

That’s why I load 223. Those are current prices, if your patient and buy when the getting is good you can cut down those prices even more.

 

[treillw]

Get it wet and dirty in the mountains and then try to run it fast. I have. And have with Tikkas as well. There’s no comparison. People need to stop looking at the price tag and the fancy “features” and marketing and evaluate things for how they actually perform.
As far as reliability, have a read through the rifle snow and ice test performed by @Formidilosus to see how REM 700 based triggers stand up.

A bix and andy trigger solves the 700 trigger freezing issue and is light years ahead of any tikka trigger I've touched.

So, if I fill it with snow and dirt, it will grind..... so will anything with enough snow and large enough dirt. Conventional wisdom would be that if you see your rifle is filled with dirt, you try to clean it before cycling the bolt like a madman and driving dirt where you really don't want it. Unless you drop it in a puddle while a grizzly is charging you and you need to immediately empty the gun, it seems like a bit of a fairy tail scenario.

I've already had my bolt freeze shut (not a defiance) - that will really put a damper on your cycling ability!

In my opinion, the best person to ask about what action is best is the gunsmith who is building your rifle. My family is a bunch of machinists and I've spent many years working in machine shops. I cannot imagine that a Tikka action (while tikkas are great and I'm truly impressed by them - see last paragraph for details) is as consistent and true as a custom that has gone through a much more rigorous design and milling process, but hey I may be wrong. Would you rather try to achieve perfection with a 2x4 from home depot, or a custom sawn and planed piece of lumber? Some people like Fords. Some people like Chevys. Some people like Pintos. Some people's favorite car is a Mercury Lynx. Again, the opinion of a trusted gunsmith who's assembling the rifle should hold the most weight on what action you use for a build - they are the one dialing everything in and dealing with the tolerances. How the bolt feels is a first world problem (coming from me and the Gucci action). Would you rather go 0-60 in 3 seconds in a Tesla or a Ferrari / Porsche / muscle car? If your brain surgeon tells you that he prefers a 1" scapple over a 2" scapple, you better order him what he wants or find another surgeon.

All that said, I'm not against Tikkas whatsoever. My dad has two 6.5s that I've done all the load development and drop work on. I'm very impressed with both of them - I was easily able to get consistent half minute loads out of both guns with very little reloading effort. Are they the nicest rifles I've handled, no. Do they do the job. Yes. Will Rosie O'Donnell do the job? Yes. But I'd rather be holding onto someone else given the option! (Great, I think I just ruined Tikkas for myself).

 

[mtnbound]

A bix and andy trigger solves the 700 trigger freezing issue and is light years ahead of any tikka trigger I've touched.

So, if I fill it with snow and dirt, it will grind..... so will anything with enough snow and large enough dirt. Conventional wisdom would be that if you see your rifle is filled with dirt, you try to clean it before cycling the bolt like a madman and driving dirt where you really don't want it. Unless you drop it in a puddle while a grizzly is charging you and you need to immediately empty the gun, it seems like a bit of a fairy tail scenario.

I've already had my bolt freeze shut (not a defiance) - that will really put a damper on your cycling ability!

In my opinion, the best person to ask about what action is best is the gunsmith who is building your rifle. My family is a bunch of machinists and I've spent many years working in machine shops. I cannot imagine that a Tikka action (while tikkas are great and I'm truly impressed by them - see last paragraph for details) is as consistent and true as a custom that has gone through a much more rigorous design and milling process, but hey I may be wrong. Would you rather try to achieve perfection with a 2x4 from home depot, or a custom sawn and planed piece of lumber? Some people like Fords. Some people like Chevys. Some people like Pintos. Some people's favorite car is a Mercury Lynx. Again, the opinion of a trusted gunsmith who's assembling the rifle should hold the most weight on what action you use for a build - they are the one dialing everything in and dealing with the tolerances. How the bolt feels is a first world problem (coming from me and the Gucci action). Would you rather go 0-60 in 3 seconds in a Tesla or a Ferrari / Porsche / muscle car? If your brain surgeon tells you that he prefers a 1" scapple over a 2" scapple, you better order him what he wants or find another surgeon.

All that said, I'm not against Tikkas whatsoever. My dad has two 6.5s that I've done all the load development and drop work on. I'm very impressed with both of them - I was easily able to get consistent half minute loads out of both guns with very little reloading effort. Are they the nicest rifles I've handled, no. Do they do the job. Yes. Will Rosie O'Donnell do the job? Yes. But I'd rather be holding onto someone else given the option! (Great, I think I just ruined Tikkas for myself).

Use whatever gives you the warm and fuzzies. Why don't you buy an AntiX action yourself and spin on a pre-fit barrel?

 

[Formidilosus]

A bix and andy trigger solves the 700 trigger freezing issue and is light years ahead of any tikka trigger I've touched.

No it doesn’t. They are as garbage as every other R700 trigger. One of the absolute worst in wet and freezing weather.

So, if I fill it with snow and dirt, it will grind..... so will anything with enough snow and large enough dirt. Conventional wisdom would be that if you see your rifle is filled with dirt, you try to clean it before cycling the bolt like a madman and driving dirt where you really don't want it. Unless you drop it in a puddle while a grizzly is charging you and you need to immediately empty the gun, it seems like a bit of a fairy tail scenario.

Tell me you don’t shoot in harsh environments often.

In my opinion, the best person to ask about what action is best is the gunsmith who is building your rifle.

How does a gunsmith know anything about what happens with rifles once they start getting used in the field?

My family is a bunch of machinists and I've spent many years working in machine shops.

Neat. What does that have to do with anything?

I cannot imagine that a Tikka action (while tikkas are great and I'm truly impressed by them - see last paragraph for details) is as consistent and true as a custom that has gone through a much more rigorous design and milling process, but hey I may be wrong.

There seems to be a lot that you can’t imagine. You’ve been nonstop asking questions about basically everything with this rifle for a week- cartridges, actions, triggers, stocks; but now you are telling people what is more reliable, and what action is better?

Would you rather try to achieve perfection with a 2x4 from home depot, or a custom sawn and planed piece of lumber? Some people like Fords. Some people like Chevys. Some people like Pintos. Some people's favorite car is a Mercury Lynx. Again, the opinion of a trusted gunsmith who's assembling the rifle should hold the most weight on what action you use for a build - they are the one dialing everything in and dealing with the tolerances. How the bolt feels is a first world problem (coming from me and the Gucci action). Would you rather go 0-60 in 3 seconds in a Tesla or a Ferrari / Porsche / muscle car? If your brain surgeon tells you that he prefers a 1" scapple over a 2" scapple, you better order him what he wants or find another surgeon.

What is all that nonsense? A CNC machine works the same in Finland as it does in the US. A tikka barrel from the 90’s fits and headspaces correctly on brand new T3x’s.

All that said, I'm not against Tikkas whatsoever. My dad has two 6.5s that I've done all the load development and drop work on. I'm very impressed with both of them - I was easily able to get consistent half minute loads out of both guns with very little reloading effort. Are they the nicest rifles I've handled, no. Do they do the job. Yes. Will Rosie O'Donnell do the job? Yes. But I'd rather be holding onto someone else given the option! (Great, I think I just ruined Tikkas for myself).

Tell us more about your knowledge of how guns work.

 

[TheM1DoesMyTalking]

Why 16" over 20"?

I kinda like the 20" barrel option to be on par with my desired hunting rifle.

I prefer 16-18" because I'm using ~7" suppressors and I often hunt in dense woods. Trying to avoid unwieldy and unbalanced setups, but your environment and needs could be different than mine. Nothing wrong with 20", especially if you're setting up a trainer to replicate your primary rifle.

 

[treillw]

No it doesn’t. They are as garbage as every other R700 trigger. One of the absolute worst in wet and freezing weather.




Tell me you don’t shoot in harsh environments often.





How does a gunsmith know anything about what happens with rifles once they start getting used in the field?





Neat. What does that have to do with anything?






There seems to be a lot that you can’t imagine. You’ve been nonstop asking questions about basically everything with this rifle for a week- cartridges, actions, triggers, stocks; but now you are telling people what is more reliable, and what action is better?




What is all that nonsense? A CNC machine works the same in Finland as it does in the US. A tikka barrel from the 90’s fits and headspaces correctly on brand new T3x’s.





Tell us more about your knowledge of how guns work.

Not worth my time.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

A bix and andy trigger solves the 700 trigger freezing issue and is light years ahead of any tikka trigger I've touched.

So, if I fill it with snow and dirt, it will grind..... so will anything with enough snow and large enough dirt. Conventional wisdom would be that if you see your rifle is filled with dirt, you try to clean it before cycling the bolt like a madman and driving dirt where you really don't want it. Unless you drop it in a puddle while a grizzly is charging you and you need to immediately empty the gun, it seems like a bit of a fairy tail scenario.

I've already had my bolt freeze shut (not a defiance) - that will really put a damper on your cycling ability!

In my opinion, the best person to ask about what action is best is the gunsmith who is building your rifle. My family is a bunch of machinists and I've spent many years working in machine shops. I cannot imagine that a Tikka action (while tikkas are great and I'm truly impressed by them - see last paragraph for details) is as consistent and true as a custom that has gone through a much more rigorous design and milling process, but hey I may be wrong. Would you rather try to achieve perfection with a 2x4 from home depot, or a custom sawn and planed piece of lumber? Some people like Fords. Some people like Chevys. Some people like Pintos. Some people's favorite car is a Mercury Lynx. Again, the opinion of a trusted gunsmith who's assembling the rifle should hold the most weight on what action you use for a build - they are the one dialing everything in and dealing with the tolerances. How the bolt feels is a first world problem (coming from me and the Gucci action). Would you rather go 0-60 in 3 seconds in a Tesla or a Ferrari / Porsche / muscle car? If your brain surgeon tells you that he prefers a 1" scapple over a 2" scapple, you better order him what he wants or find another surgeon.

All that said, I'm not against Tikkas whatsoever. My dad has two 6.5s that I've done all the load development and drop work on. I'm very impressed with both of them - I was easily able to get consistent half minute loads out of both guns with very little reloading effort. Are they the nicest rifles I've handled, no. Do they do the job. Yes. Will Rosie O'Donnell do the job? Yes. But I'd rather be holding onto someone else given the option! (Great, I think I just ruined Tikkas for myself).

 

[mt100gr.]

A bix and andy trigger solves the 700 trigger freezing issue and is light years ahead of any tikka trigger I've touched.

So, if I fill it with snow and dirt, it will grind..... so will anything with enough snow and large enough dirt. Conventional wisdom would be that if you see your rifle is filled with dirt, you try to clean it before cycling the bolt like a madman and driving dirt where you really don't want it. Unless you drop it in a puddle while a grizzly is charging you and you need to immediately empty the gun, it seems like a bit of a fairy tail scenario.

I've already had my bolt freeze shut (not a defiance) - that will really put a damper on your cycling ability!

In my opinion, the best person to ask about what action is best is the gunsmith who is building your rifle. My family is a bunch of machinists and I've spent many years working in machine shops. I cannot imagine that a Tikka action (while tikkas are great and I'm truly impressed by them - see last paragraph for details) is as consistent and true as a custom that has gone through a much more rigorous design and milling process, but hey I may be wrong. Would you rather try to achieve perfection with a 2x4 from home depot, or a custom sawn and planed piece of lumber? Some people like Fords. Some people like Chevys. Some people like Pintos. Some people's favorite car is a Mercury Lynx. Again, the opinion of a trusted gunsmith who's assembling the rifle should hold the most weight on what action you use for a build - they are the one dialing everything in and dealing with the tolerances. How the bolt feels is a first world problem (coming from me and the Gucci action). Would you rather go 0-60 in 3 seconds in a Tesla or a Ferrari / Porsche / muscle car? If your brain surgeon tells you that he prefers a 1" scapple over a 2" scapple, you better order him what he wants or find another surgeon.

All that said, I'm not against Tikkas whatsoever. My dad has two 6.5s that I've done all the load development and drop work on. I'm very impressed with both of them - I was easily able to get consistent half minute loads out of both guns with very little reloading effort. Are they the nicest rifles I've handled, no. Do they do the job. Yes. Will Rosie O'Donnell do the job? Yes. But I'd rather be holding onto someone else given the option! (Great, I think I just ruined Tikkas for myself).

That very knowledgeable gunsmith that is building your Ferrari IS a salesman. He's not going to tell you that you can buy a $600 donor action and a prefit barrel that will hang with his builds.

 

[treillw]

That very knowledgeable gunsmith that is building your Ferrari IS a salesman. He's not going to tell you that you can buy a $600 donor action and a prefit barrel that will hang with his builds.

Yeah, I could keep going with this, but it's not worth my time or energy arguing with people I don't even know. Better things to do in life.

Happy new year.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Why 16" over 20"?

I kinda like the 20" barrel option to be on par with my desired hunting rifle.

For my primary hunting rifle, I use a 20” barrel. I felt like I needed that to get enough velocity out of the 6.5 CM. I use an OG 6.5 suppressor on it, which gives an overall length of 24”.

My .223 has a 16.5” barrel because I can put a 7” suppressor on it and have it be close to the same length, while being very quiet. The 16” barrel seems more than enough to get excellent velocity out of a .223.

 

[Speaks]

I use a 20” barrel. I felt like I needed that to get enough velocity out of the 6.5 CM.

This was the big thing that prompted me to get my 6CM and kind of leaves my 6.5 in this odd man out kind of place. My 18 inch 6 is 200 fps faster than my 24 inch 6.5.

Once I shoot up my ammo supply my 6.5 may very well turn into something else. I may keep it as a trainer due to cheap and readily available ammo but cant see any hunting scenario where I would ever grab it over my 6. More and more I am thinking I would be better off with a short 6 in a rokstock lite and a little longer 6 in a heavy. Otherwise the real role of my 6.5 is just being there in case there is another ammo shortage and its all I can get.